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Devil Fish arcs of fire
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 16:23   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
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Default Devil Fish arcs of fire

Does anybody know the the arcs of Gun drones on the Devil Fish are? I've heard that the burst cannon only 180 degrees in the front, and someone said that the Drones count as side sponsored, then again, I've also head it argued that it's a skimmer so everything has 360 degree fire arcs. Can anyone give me a deffinate answere?
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 17:18   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

I know for sure that the Burst Cannon only has a 180 degree arc of fire...but as for the Drones? I would believe in all fairness that they would also have a 180 degree range, where a 360 would seem unfair to some people. I've always assumed that the drones were 180. Thoughts? :-\
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 17:30   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

It definitely looks as though the gun drones have slightly more than a 180 degree fire arc towards the front. The model actually interferes with the burst cannon going all the way to 180 (at least mine does)... but its close enough. I think that Skimmer argument is... bad.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 18:15   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

The drones can shoot across the nose of the fish... but also directly behind them, to the side of the engines. I'd say it's more like 270 degree arcs.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 18:24   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

I agree with khal...270.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 18:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

Yeah, I'd almost say the drones need a line of sight check - the only place they can't fire is where the skimmer would block their shot.

The burst cannon is 180. Tanks can't spin in the movement phase even if they are skimmers.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 18:56   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

I always figured the Drones could shoot anywhere from across the nose to the back hatch (the drones are low enough they can fire under the engines, if you look.) I'd say it's more like 225 degrees, tho. The nose/BC blocks out about 45 degrees, and the rest of the 'fish about 90 degrees. Of course, in the event of being assaulted from underneath, the drones can bear on that. I usually play 360 degrees when being assaulted, 225 otherwise. I've had no standing argument about that. Because really there's only a few places the 'fish is low enough that it really does block LOS from the drones, but for ease of firing, at range I only do 225. Also eliminates the forward "blind spot" at close range.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 19:41   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

The real question here is what type of mounting are the drones. The Railgun and Ion are turret mounted (though I just looked through the codex and I couldn't find where it actually specifies they are on a turret). The burst cannon is also a turret, though it has a limited mobility. The problem here is the rules gap from the 5th ed book, it merely specifies visibility ranges for 1) turrets 2) side sponsons and 3) fixed weapons.

The drones are a whole other problem, since they can't be easilyl modeled on a stock Hammerhead (well, they can but not without modding) and you end up with the same problem with twin Burst cannons. I don't even show my drones, but according to the rules I can shoot with them. Are they a side sponson? I say no because they are not side mounted (specifically the side of the vehicle), and they very obviously have no opposite side blindness, as all sponsons do. Is it a fixed weapon? Possibly, but then this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since the drones can turn by design and they detach, and if that's true than the twin burst cannons on the Hammerhead would (likely) be fixed as well, and that wold limit our front arc considerably. Personally, it makes more sense to me that the drones (and Twin burst cannons) are turreted, and as such have a 360 degree arc of fire. It makes sense to me and the model gives the same impression.

LOS is also somewhat dodgy, particularly the statement that the central mount blocks some angles from the other side of the vehicle. Consider the hammerhead with either ION or Railgun. Since it is a skimmer and in essense is allowed to float above area terrain, LOS for the hovering vehicle is drawn from the weapon mount, it would not be logically possible to follow the rules and get LOS to anything below them if we were able to model this accurately. So we make a concession that is logically not possible to do this so we place the hammerhead on the tabletop and imagine that it can float above the terrain.

Neither the Hammerhead nor the Devilfish are portrayed accurately, since they float a variable distance above the terrain, and it's simply not possible to represent a skimmer floating high above area terrain (which does happen). The only thing we know for sure, is that shooting from a vehicle is blocked by LOS by area terrain, we just have no DIFINITIVE rule that states a drones (or BC) arc of fire. We make sensible modelling concessions to represent what actually happens, that the skimmer is dodging, moving, banking and bringing the guns to bear where they need to shoot.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 23:40   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

My take on this has been that the Chin turret was 180 degrees, much like the twin hvy bolters on a LandRaider, and the Drone cradles were 360 (either DF drones or HH burst/sms)

Pure rules wise I say 360 because its stated that the drones on the tanks are treated as passengers... and, like in the chimera or rhino top hatch, passengers have 360 degree firing arcs.

Fluff-wise: underslung turrets would have a full 360 fire arc below them, and only the vehicles' horizon arcs present blindspots... so the Skimmer would either have to fly a bit higher, or simply tilt 5 degrees left or right to present a full underturret broadside.

This is my rules-take on this, and no one Ive played so far has had any problems with it.
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Old 10 Jan 2006, 00:14   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Devil Fish arcs of fire

I would keep it a 180 because: 1) It is so much easier and simplified to keep it at 180 than to argue with your opponent. And 2) Would would stick their DF's rear end to the opponent?
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