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Tau vs Death guard
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 16:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tau vs Death guard

I've got a big game coming up against a best friend who plays Death Guard marines. whats more, there's going to be a crowd at this "big game". We both started new armies, for me its tau, for him, death guard. Hes been playing SM for years now though, so he knows what hes doing. Anyways, my problem is that (for those of you who dont know) his entire army is T5, and all infiltrating. in every squad he has 1 plasma gun, and one melta. His chaos lord a DEFINATE first turn assault - infiltrate, fleet of foot, AND 12" charge. The only weaknesses i can play against is the fact that he only has 2 modes of transport: 1 land raider, and one rhino. The rhino carries his possessed, the land raider is empty. He also has only 45 models in his army, that includes all his 7man units of infantry, lord, dreadnaught and vehicles. That being said, im starting a purist mech list in hopes of outrunning his forces. I was also thinking that possibly setting up vehicles around the perimeter of my forces would keep his infiltraters at bay? its going to be an 1850 game. so, to wrap up and put my concern into clear view : what can i do against an all infiltrating army and a crazy lord with potential 24" 1st move? Has anyone really played agianst this type of chaos with some helpful suggestions? maybe some list recommendations? thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 16:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

Hi,

I played against an all infiltrating choas armies a couple of times, and although I play hybrid some of the things I learned may help.

First you need infiltrators. I would use stealths but also kroot. Why kroot you say ? It's because they have more models. In one game I put most of my force in one corner and won the roll off for infiltration. My 91pt unit of kroot can string themselves out in a line 37" long (each model is 1" wide and they can be 2" apart), so I put them about 15" from my lines going though any line of sight blocking terrain. Between my my firebase and kroot all he would do was infiltrate a further 18" from the kroot (miles away from my firebase).

As you know his lord can charge first turn you must set-up to deal with it. I would suggest castling most of your army in a corner. Then you need something to force his infiltration back. I used kroot and fire warriors spread out on the edge of my deployment zone, but you could risk devilfishs. These forward squads need to be 7" away from each other so he can't consolidate from one to another.

You opponent looks light on long range anti-tank fire power so you're tactics of running away from him is good. Kill the land raider with a hammerhead and you tanks are safe once their out of the 18" threat range of melta/plamsa guns.

After the infiltration his army is quite slow, while yours is quite fast, whether the storm and then outrun him.

His lord appears to be the only model that can charge 1st turn. Be sure to leave a lure for him. You want a unit which you can be almost assured to break after be charged such as a small gun drones squadrons, small fire warrior unit (if you have an etheral) etc. Make sure you have 2 hammerheads or crisis suits ready to pounce on him after he consolidates. If he fails his 5+ inv save a rilgun will instant kill him. Actually monstrous creatures can't infiltrate so he can't have demonic statue so a fusion gun would also instant kill him.

Good luck in your game, let us know how it went.

Rathstar
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 17:12   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

wow! thanks. that was very informative. i was acutally expecting people to tell me "gosh, man. just look at the SM killing forums". but people dont realize that this situation is very different. thanks for the help. anyone else have some suggestions? Further note: death guard dont get heavy weapons...NO HEAVY BOLTERS! yay!
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 17:17   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

45 models is a pretty huge weakness. It sounds like he is set up to win by turn 2, or lose.


With 3 heads, and 3 fish you should be able to make an assault proof castle for your suits to hide in for the first turn. I would choose 1 corner, deny the other flank entirely. Because he will be so anxious for CC the other side of the board should be clear; so, you can tank shock your way to the clear side while flat footing his army with the heads and suits. Once in the clear you should own him, either w/ a firebase or a FOF maneuver to finish off whatever is left at turn 4. ^-^


My latest anti-meq list includes a 3 fusion blaster, 3 plasma rifle el' with bodygaurd. i twin linked the FB on the el' and twin linked the PR on his gaurd. Hardwired mutli-trakers all around, and a HW drone controller for the el', with 2 SD. 298 points , and 6.21 meq wounds per turn >. It would be great if his lord charged a fish or head out of frustration only to be exposed to JSJ from el' and co in your turn.


If he resists the urge to charge, and instead waits for the melta guys to come up, you may still be able to shoot the lord while your castle moves with all haste to exit stage left. He will be pretty demoralized if his lord is dead and the vehicals are stunned on turn 2.


May be worth taking Disruption pods on your skimmers. I ussually don't, but you may be seeing a lot of Death or glory.


using your tanks to keep his forces from assaulting you is possible, however it requires some skill if you need to move the "tank castle", and you will. So, set your guys up on the kitchen table the night before and practice a little first. Because if he does manage to get you into CC you will most likely lose. I know, DUH, but it is worth remembering that it is more important to stay out of CC than it is for you to get an extra couple of shots off.


Also there may be some muttering about tank castles being "cheesy". This is rubish. The danger to taken an all assault army is that the other guy may "out tank" you, and that is what you want. If any one cries cheese you should point out that he could have spent a few more points on las cannons.


I guess im starting to rant, and also i'm beggining to make many assumptions about his list composition and your play style. Good luck, and please do post the results, it sounds like it will be bloody interesting.


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Old 08 Jan 2006, 18:26   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

Um, tank shock is crazy with a melta in every squad. It's almost never worthwhile against any type of marines, but especially not chaos.

Everything else sounds good... I haven't faced this type of army very often but am starting to now. Tank castles might save you but remember skimmers can be penetrated in CC.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 19:05   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluespruce786


I guess im starting to rant, and also i'm beggining to make many assumptions about his list composition and your play style. Good luck, and please do post the results, it sounds like it will be bloody interesting.



his list (as best as i can recall) has the following:
4 7-man squads of death gaurd, each with a plasma and melta in it. this inclueds the true grit ability, and infiltrate.
Either crazy custom lord with nurgles rot, demonic speed, power weapons (maybe man-reaper) OR he will use typhus...doh.
one land raider with TL lascannon, heavy bolters.
dreadnaught, with demonic infestation and parisitic hull, some other stuff. equipped with plasma cannon (small blast) and close combat weapon.
7 posessed in a rhino
probably leaving some stuff out, but thats all i can remember.

I guess i can just hope for a No infiltration mission!?
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 20:21   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by DireStrike
Um, tank shock is crazy with a melta in every squad. It's almost never worthwhile against any type of marines, but especially not chaos.

Everything else sounds good... I haven't faced this type of army very often but am starting to now. Tank castles might save you but remember skimmers can be penetrated in CC.
Bingo! Too right Dire, I forgot about the melta's . But he may have to tank shock to move away from the baddies. Skimmers only get hit on a 6 in CC, so typhus only hits .5 times and he needs an 8 to glance AV 12, so whats that about a 20% chance to glance? I'm no expert, either by experience or by math hammer, but i don't lose to many skimmers to CC.

The melta guns, on the other hand, can suck, I play sisters alot, and i worry more about the sara squad with melta's than about the exorcist. Lets say he gets 6 meltas that can shoot at a tank, 3 <6" and 3>6", 2/3 rds hit so 2 of each, and all he needs to roll is a 4+ to glance, thats prolly 4 glancing hits. So your losing a tank a turn. Hmmm? maybe you should take the kroot or even human auxileries to try and lock his melta squads up for a turn, while the skimmers evac to the other side?
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Just so you understand where Iím coming from; I am not a tournament player. However I play at least twice a week, and for the past 2 months my average is more like 3.75 games per week. Although Iíve only been at it for a year, I work hard to know the rules well and to keep abreast of tactical developments within the hobby. 40k is the latest incarnation of a lifelong interest in tactical games such as chess and OGRE/GEV.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 21:04   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

Well, he shouldn't need to tank shock as skimmers can simply fly over enemy models. =p

How many points will this battle be?

The Land Raider, Rhino, and dreadnought, probably in that order, are priority targets. But you also need to make a hole in his lines that you can run through. Unless you play a static army, in which case this will be like any other battle. =D
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 23:41   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

well, one good thing is that you won't be charging Death Guard, so that negates the usefulness of True Grit

I'd imagine that they'll be trying to rapid-fire you to death before you kill them. So I'd go for lots of Stealth suits.
I'd also advise a couple of 10-man Kroot units (no Shaper) to screw up his infiltration. Each Kroot will only cost a third of a Plague Marine.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 23:54   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau vs Death guard

Definatly take a few squads of kroot to screw up his infiltration. Normally I'm a fan of large squads of kroot, but against deathguard and Nurgles Rot they will die like crazy. In this case two small squads of 10 would be ideal. The Lord with the potential 24" assault is going to be a priority. You'll need some good bait to draw his out. I'd suggest a full firewarrior squad or a pair of broadsides, as anything less won't be tempting. Hammerheads are going to be awesome here as he doesn't seem to have the long range anti tank to hunt them down.

So take two squads of 10 firewarriors, a railhead, maybe an ionhead, two broadsides, at least two squads of firewarriors in devilfishes, and spend the rest on crisis suits with plasma and fusion. Stealths won't be at their best against Deathguard, so I'd stay away from them, though a squad of three could both help screw up his infiltration and might be a substantial enough bait. You know your opponent the best so you know what will function best as bait.
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