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Old 03 Jan 2006, 00:20   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Markerlights

Howdy y'all, sorry for this probably quite stupid question but i have just learned that markerlights negate cover saves but i'm still confused as to how this would work in the case of killing mandrakes or eldar with the conceal ability. Now if a mandrake unit was lit up by a markerlight and then i dropped a submunition upside their heads and they were in the open (they get a 5+ cover save even in open) would that be negated? please clarify. Thanks for any input.as this would be handy against my DE mate who loves mandrakes an wyches poppin out from everywhere an my eldar mate who has gone altaioc (sorry if mis-spelt) on us using their damn conceal. >
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 00:33   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

I believe it's negated.

The FAQ states:
Quote:
Targets illuminated by Markerlights that are subsequently hit by weapons using the Markerlight to improve their chance of hitting do not receive cover saves.
I guess that applies to units like the ones you mentioned, that count as cover when shot at - it would be the same I guess as when they are targetted by flamer/template weapons, or when assualted etc.
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 00:45   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

It's just we have some very arguementitive people where i play and they won't like this suprise. So i'd just like to be sure i fully understand this rule so i can use this. it's just i don't think there is a wrong or right bout this i mean, the DE codex says that they get a 5+ cover save from everything even when in open. Since this is a natural ability (chameleonic skin or sumthin like that) would you really be able to remove that from them? Sorry to bug you like this mace just tryin to stop some regulars from labelling me a cheat, cos they will hate a sub plate landing on them and them being all defenceless to it.
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 01:01   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

It is argueable, but I'll need to refer to the exact wording of the rules..

But, I believe the rules just state that they get a cover save (if out in the open, or an improved one if in cover) - that is, a normal cover save, nothing special about it or anything, nor can I find anything saying that they get it regardless of what is shooting at them. And so I would assume they don't get cover saves against weapons that don't allow them, such as flamers etc - or in this case, markerlight supported submunition blasts.

I would contact someone from GW though, just to be sure (make that a few, and pick the majority answer - GW reps tend to have differing answers etc, especially in regards to rules).
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 01:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

Cheers Mace will get onto that in the mornin, i'll post back with what i find but from what you are suggesting i think that u'd probably be right. Cheers for the advice this shows why you have 15+ karma. Cheers man ;D
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 01:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

There are three types of saves: armor saves, cover saves, and invulnerable saves. Armor saves are the most common and are broken by the AP system.

Cover saves are like invulnerable saves that have no meaning in H2H. A flamer and markerlights can remove these saves. If the Mandrakes don't get their save while being flamed, they don't get a save when markerlighted.

Invulnerable saves almost always occur. A select few weapons can breach these powerful defences...

Your right, their wrong

[edit] Damnit, Mace got there first!
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 01:14   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

If the save is ever explicitly referred to as a cover save, the Markerlights negate it. *If it is only ever referred to as an invulnerable save, they get to keep it. *This may be clarified in the upcoming codex, as the FAQ was not terribly clear on the subject.

As far as a practical explanation goes, the markerlight allows the Tau to track an enemy more precisely, so dodging around or using adaptive camouflage will be of little use, whereas armor and energy fields will be unaffected.
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 01:20   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

ooh, markerlights negate cover saves? I didn'tz know that. Kick booty I freakin' will!
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 01:24   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

The Mandrake entry specifically says "if attacked by something that ignores cover, their normal armour save of 5+ applies."

although presumably anything AP5 or better cancels out their armour save too.
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Old 03 Jan 2006, 11:50   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Markerlights

As has been said, if their save is designated as a "cover save" then the markerlight will negate it. It's a very powerful weapon until the new codex comes out (as who knows, they may take that away), but for now, the markerlight ignores all cover saves, so if a unit has a save designated as a cover save, no matter what the reason for the unit having it, the markerlighted weapon will ignore it.


What hasn't been said, though, is that if you have argumentative people there who don't like surprises like this, and you think that they will take issue with it, you should notify them of it before the game starts. It's always easier to avoid a problem if you discuss it before the game, because then it won't hit them as hard as it would if they learn of it because you've just wiped out their whole squad

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