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How many Kroot in a unit ?
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 02:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default How many Kroot in a unit ?

I was wondering how many kroots I should fill my units with. I got 30 and is it better 10/10/10, 15/15 or 10/20 ?

You opinions are welcome.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 02:08   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

You mean 30... dont you?

I would say 15/15. Kroot are usually best in large squads and this way you have both at a significant strength without having one overly strong one and one minimum squad.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 04:03   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

Units of 10 are best, but then again, if you want to use all 30 kroot, you might not find terrain for more than 2 units. So I would say 2 units of 10 is the best option, one unit of 10 and one of 20 otherwise.

Kroot are best in units of 10 because their advantages don't get any better the more kroot you have.

Kroot are little use for damage advantage, they aren't good in combat and they are only about par with fire warriors in terms of static shooting.

What kroot are useful for is their tactical advantage. Kroot can push infiltrators back, by deploying where your opponent would want to deploy his infiltrators, sacrificing the kroot for better position. Kroot are good scoring units, they can hide behind forests and then run through them towards the objective in the last few turns without movement penalty. Kroot are also good as a distraction. You can often get your opponent to waste his time on killing them just because they are there.

So, the advantages of kroot are:

Infiltrate
Cheap
Scoring unit
Can deploy normally if you wish
Distraction
Speed Bump

What's important to realise right now is that none of these advantages get any better the more kroot you have in a unit. The number of kills each kroot unit gets for its points does not get better the more kroot you have, but the efficiency of being a cheap scoring unit or pushing back infiltrators gets worse the more kroot you have.

Units of 10 for 70pts is the best way to go.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 06:42   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

20 is great, 13 is mathamatically perfect, 10 is a scoring unit.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 06:57   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

I'm going to disagree, kroot work best in large numbers. A squad of 10 kroot is probably going to be below half strength after a single round of combat, and with ld7 they're going to run.

I took squad of 11 with a shaper to a 1000 point tournament. First game was a cleanse against LatD. Charged them into combat with his nasty close combat commander and they managed to bog him down for two turns (good moral rolls by me). They didn't wound him, but that same lord made 40 straight 2+ saves that game before my commander and crisis team finally brought him down with plasma. Second game was a patrol against nids. They showed up on the third turn and engaged a small squad of termagaunts, who they took a few casualties from before routing them. I had a really big advantage that game with the nid's coming at me in small wave with poor synapse control, so the kroot's performance was negligible. Third game was a take and hold against Chaos Undvided. I infiltrated the kroot into some ruins with a good view of the objective. First turn they couldn't see anything the could damage. Second turn his chaos lord walked on and assaulted them; killed them in two rounds of combat losing one wound in return. Final game was nightfight against Khorne (one of my most nightmarish games ever) I moved the kroot to contest a quarter while hugging an edge. A squad of chaos bikers road up, gunned down a few and then killed the rest in assault withoug return casualties.

The kroot didn't do too well overall because the lacked the numbers to absorb casualties and inflict serious damage.

At another 1250 point tournament I took pretty much the same list except with a pair of broadsides and the kroot were expanded to 20 with a shaper. First game was cleanse against guard. The kroot moved into the quarter adjecent to my deployment zone and immediatly took a battlcannon shot with half a dozen or so casualties. They held and on my third turn charged and destroyed the chimera my opponent had sent to claim the quarter. They finished off the survivors of the armored fist the next turn and swept on, the took heavy casualties as they gunned down the remains of a guard squad and killed the HQ in HtH. The finished the game with about six models and had saved a quarter from capture as well as drawing fire away from my suits and inflicting good damage on my opponents main line (my 24 firewarriors on the other hand served as target practice for the guard, didn't inflict a single casualty all game).

Second game was a recon with escalating engagement against footslogging Space Wolves. The kroot charged a squad of blood claws who were heading straight for my firewarrior squads. They inflicted four or five casualties against the squad they charged and won the combat. On his turn he charged a second squad in behind the first. The kroot killed a three or four more blood claws but were overrun by the shear number of attacks, and the few survivors broke. My crisis suits and firewarriors were able to mop up the survivors before they could charge.

Third game to win the tournament (it was very small), was the mission where you get victory points for being within 12" of the center (can't remember the name) against Necrons. The kroot infiltrated behind some rubble in the center. The killed a tomb spider with shooting and killed off a few warriors to help the rest of my army finish the whole squad in one turn. They took heavy casualties from destroyers but held. Towards the end of the game I retreated them back to spare them from the worst of the firepower. They survived the game with eleven carnivors (not including the shaper) left; barely staying above half strength and giving me a healthy 181 victory points to add to my total.

The 20 strong kroot squad performed admirably throughout the tournament. They helped my stealth team rip through 50 plus guardsmen in the first game. In the second they inflicted good casualties, allowing the rest of my army to kill the remainder of the attackers in that area, and allowed my crisis suits to opperate with almost complete imunity to pick apart the remaining marines. In the final game the added valuable firepower to kill off the Necrons immediatly approaching the objective, and survived long enough to give me good victory points (the biggest thing in that mission was my opponent deploying far to much of his force against my hammerhead and one of my firewarrior squads who were pulling firesupport. The slow moving troops he sent against them killed the firewariors by turn two and the damaged hammerhead fled. They never got back in range of the rest of my army that had fortified the center).

Comparing the successes and failures of the two kroot squads should give you a good idea of what performance you can expect from them based upon the unit's size. Check the stickied tactics thread for more information on how to deploy kroot effectively.

My suggestion would be a squad of twenty with a shaper (though don't buy the upgrade and hide the shaper in the back for leadership). I'd advise leaving the other ten at home unless you feel like getting more and taking two full squads. Personally I run one squad of twenty up to 1750 points because I like to keep my army pretty mobile, and 30+ kroot on the board would be a bit unwieldy for my tactics.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 14:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlainari
Units of 10 are best, but then again, if you want to use all 30 kroot, you might not find terrain for more than 2 units. So I would say 2 units of 10 is the best option, one unit of 10 and one of 20 otherwise.

Kroot are best in units of 10 because their advantages don't get any better the more kroot you have.

Kroot are little use for damage advantage, they aren't good in combat and they are only about par with fire warriors in terms of static shooting.

What kroot are useful for is their tactical advantage. Kroot can push infiltrators back, by deploying where your opponent would want to deploy his infiltrators, sacrificing the kroot for better position. Kroot are good scoring units, they can hide behind forests and then run through them towards the objective in the last few turns without movement penalty. Kroot are also good as a distraction. You can often get your opponent to waste his time on killing them just because they are there.

So, the advantages of kroot are:

Infiltrate
Cheap
Scoring unit
Can deploy normally if you wish
Distraction
Speed Bump

What's important to realise right now is that none of these advantages get any better the more kroot you have in a unit. The number of kills each kroot unit gets for its points does not get better the more kroot you have, but the efficiency of being a cheap scoring unit or pushing back infiltrators gets worse the more kroot you have.

Units of 10 for 70pts is the best way to go.
I agree whole-heartedly with all of this. Units of 10, no upgrades.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 14:20   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

15/15. Kroot works in big numbers. Thus I agree with vimes and vash.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 16:00   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: How many Kroots in a unit ?

Thanks for advises. I think I'll just adapt my squads to the ennemies I'm facing ( large squads VS IG and Necrons, small ones VS other armies and/or holding scenarios ...).
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 17:23   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroot in a unit ?

In my Envoy to the Kroot list I run 20 Carnivores w/ Shaper, the 6+ save, and 8 Hounds. And a smaller squad of 10 Carnivores w/ 3 Kroot Ox.
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Old 02 Jan 2006, 17:38   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: How many Kroot in a unit ?

15. Large enough to be difficult to dislodge, small enough not to be unweildy.

Mine never do alot, but absorb alot of attention, and conversely, firepower. Which is ok, since thats their job. Saves some FW and other folks from incoming fire.
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