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??? just one thing ??? (mech vs. static question)
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 11:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default ??? just one thing ??? (mech vs. static question)

in* a mech army is the only* thing you do is shoot ,shoot, get in drive ,and save valuable points ???
cause if you don't isn't it better just to stand shoot ,shoot ,shoot,shoot,let the kroot handle cc ?
and all you lose is kroot and some firewarriors and maybe a tank or 2 in a game (they got shot down)and with the 320 points you saved(4 devilfish)you can get more fire support like a tank and more stealth's,firewarriors,crisis(matters on opponent)and kill more people and win more games with out losing to much of your own.plz* tell me what you thing and give diffrent scenarios (i like get profed wrong cause i learn more that way)
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 11:22   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ???

actually, as I see it, mech tau is all about mobility, shooting comes in the second place...

you can use the devilfish for FoF tactics and they give you FW that much needed mobility.
in essence, a mech tau army sacrifices cold hard gun superiority for the ability to create local gun superiority, allowing them to exploit any weak points the enemy line has. Also, when you have a static front line and the CC specialists come in, you're a goner (unless you're really lucky) but with a mech tau army, you can just pack your things and leave, move a little further and shoot your enemy as he tries to advance to you (again)
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 11:38   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ???

Most mech tau do not actually sacrifice shooting all that much anyway...because they do not use many devilfish.

They use crisis, stealths, Hammers and even drones. All have assualt type weapons, so you have mobility and shooting power.
That said most put that 1 compulsory FW unit in a fish to take objectives aswell, if for no other reason than to complete the mech theme. Kroot are also ok but infiltrate is their mobility.

Personally I rather use stealths than FWs. 2 max sized stealth squads with drones = equivelent of 40 FWs.
Add the 12 FWs in a fish and you have a decent anti-infantry base.

Few kroot squads on top and it should be enough...I am not lucky enough to run into a 150 model ork army anyway.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 14:57   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsurma
Most mech tau do not actually sacrifice shooting all that much anyway...because they do not use many devilfish.
Are you kidding? A devilfish gives you 3 18" shots for nearly 100 points, and you call that not sacrificing shooting???
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 15:27   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
Are you kidding?* A devilfish gives you 3 18" shots for nearly 100 points, and you call that not sacrificing shooting???
5 atucally, if you fact or in the drones. and thats 3 at bs4 and 2 at bs3.3. 3-4 hits a turn. 30" killzone. as good as 6-8 fire warriors. infinitely more survivable. I've taken fish with this loadout and they're surprisingly effective, I've not noticed any drop off in effectiveness. If anything, my army performs better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattz
in a mech army is the only thing you do is shoot ,shoot, get in drive ,and save valuable points ???
cause if you don't isn't it better just to stand shoot ,shoot ,shoot,shoot,let the kroot handle cc ?
and all you lose is kroot and some firewarriors and maybe a tank or 2 in a game (they got shot down)and with the 320 points you saved(4 devilfish)you can get more fire support like a tank and more stealth's,firewarriors,crisis(matters on opponent)and kill more people and win more games with out losing to much of your own.plz tell me what you thing and give diffrent scenarios (i like get profed wrong cause i learn more that way)
throw in 2 chaos lieutenants with daemonic speed, and infiltrate, and you've got a first turn assault. what will your fire warriors (or even kroot) do for you here? throw in a fast tyranid army, or an assault foced SM army (like an accursed Death co. laden blood agnels army) and your army will be engaged in cc by turn 2-3. pure static has a wall of fire, but it is very tactically inflexible and lets your opponent control the flow of the game.
then there's factors involved in the game itself. what if you're playing recon? the lack of devilfish will hurt you considerably.

mech tau is not about fish of fury or any bull like that. its not a sacrafice of firepower. its a very manoeverable army. its not about volume (which is what static is about) Its about getting the right shots, in the right places. I swear by mech. I will not play tau any other way. its a style not suited for everyone, but it works if you know what you're doing.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 16:03   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ???

Mech Tau is taking our number of shots, saying wow, and making the shots go where they should... rather than whatever is within 30" of our battle line.

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Old 11 Dec 2005, 17:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsurma
Most mech tau do not actually sacrifice shooting all that much anyway...because they do not use many devilfish.
Are you kidding?* A devilfish gives you 3 18" shots for nearly 100 points, and you call that not sacrificing shooting???
A static unit of Fire Warriors with no good targets in LOS sacrifices shooting just as much as one that stayed in the Devilfish for a turn to move to a good location and rapid-fire.* This game is not just about who gets to roll the most dice in the shooting phase.* You have to consider how well you can control the flow of the game.* A Tau army with the maximum number of shooting units can (and probably will) be slaughtered by an opponent who can control where and when those shots will be taken.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 18:27   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ??? (mech vs. static question)

Didn't you start a similar topic a while ago? Let me find it.

here it is: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=13292.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattz
in* a mech army is the only* thing you do is shoot ,shoot, get in drive ,and save valuable points ???
Points preservation IS a large part of mech tau, but its hardly the ONLY part. You can do horrendous amounts of damage using hammerheads, suits and massed fire.... yes, massed fire.

Quote:
cause if you don't isn't it better just to stand shoot ,shoot ,shoot,shoot,let the Corot handle cc ?
*my emboldening*
NO. No its not. If you just stand in place, its more like shoot, die, die, die.

Also, kroot are only good in CC if they get the charge. If you just have them sit there and wait to get charged, then YOU WILL DIE. Unless your fighting little Timmy.

Quote:
and all you lose is kroot and some firewarriors and maybe a tank or 2 in a game (they got shot down)and with the 320 points you saved(4 devilfish)you can get more fire support like a tank and more stealth's,firewarriors,crisis(matters on opponent)and kill more people and win more games with out losing to much of your own.plz* tell me what you thing and give diffrent scenarios (i like get profed wrong cause i learn more that way)
If you play it safe, it is not impossible to get through an entire game without losing anything more than a handful of warriors and maybe a crisis suit.

Another thing is that with static tau, you are pretty much boned if your fighting on a jungle or city-fight/industrial board, which are usually regarded as the most intresting.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 19:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ??? (mech vs. static question)

Quote:
Another thing is that with static tau, you are pretty much boned if your fighting on a jungle or city-fight/industrial board, which are usually regarded as the most intresting.
I'd say static get boned prettymuch anywhere where there's a lot of cover, which works against them more than you'd think. I played static on a trench-warfare map against SMurfs and they actually out-shot me, because their units in cover negate even railheads or ionheads. Then they used the cover to hop a chaplain-led group of assault marines into my FWs, which I simply could not shoot down in time, and that was the end of it.

Quote:
Unless your fighting little Timmy.
That made me laugh a lot.

"Little timmy fires his slingshot...3 to hit...2 to piss a fire warrior off...save is...missed! We have one pissed-off fire warrior!"
"FW squad fires at Timmy in retribution for the shiner he gave their 'ui. 4 to hit...2 to wound...ooh, that's gotta sting little timmy."
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 19:59   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: ??? just one thing ??? (mech vs. static question)

Vsurma
Most mech tau do not actually sacrifice shooting all that much anyway...because they do not use many devilfish.

march10k
Are you kidding? A devilfish gives you 3 18" shots for nearly 100 points, and you call that not sacrificing shooting???

No I don't, read the message. it says (incase you missed it) because they do not use many devilfish.


5 atucally, if you fact or in the drones. and thats 3 at bs4 and 2 at bs3.3. 3-4 hits a turn. 30" killzone. as good as 6-8 fire warriors. infinitely more survivable. I've taken fish with this loadout and they're surprisingly effective, I've not noticed any drop off in effectiveness. If anything, my army performs better.


IF you pay 90pts for for the fish, then yea 3.1 hits a turn. I agree though the devilfish is not too expensive due to the fact that it comes with those 2 drones. Still if you want to use the burst without a multitracker then the fish goes down quite easilly. Its too bad tau dont have template weapons beside the flamer, its easy to herd enemy troops together with the fish.


Also, kroot are only good in CC if they get the charge. If you just have them sit there and wait to get charged, then YOU WILL DIE. Unless your fighting little Timmy.

Kroot do just fine attacking at init 10 with 2 attacks when charged. They excell at it.

Mech tau just seems more fun to me, I dont see the appeal in stand and shot for any other army than IG.

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