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Totally underestimated.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 02:59   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Totally underestimated.

In my opinion, crisis suits are the most underestimated CQB unit in the game against standard (non-specialized towards CQB units).
Think about it: They're jump infantry, have TWO assault weapons to soften the enemy up with (inlcuding a flamer, the king of all pre-assault weapons), have two attacks, a high toughness, a 3+ save, and the 'vre has a halfway-okay WS. Against an infantry unit, they could easily be used to entangle the entire thing and open a path for other units if need be, to soften them up for a Kroot assault. Their low I value is the only thing they've really got working against them.

In fact, I'm thinking of outfitting a squad of three with Flamers and MP and gun drones and giving it a shot next time I play against guard or something. Yes, I'm aware it's not fluffy. I think the creativity makes up for it, but maybe that's me.

What say you to this most taboo of claims?
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 03:18   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

I say that you don't realy get, or at least understand to make use of, the concept of "point buyback", or however you want to call it... granted a Crisis Suit or three can tie down a low-S, medium WS unit in combat for a while, but that's all they can do... and as soon as you hit a buried power weapon or powerfist, the fireworks that were your 70+ point models start going off.

As a last resort, a Crisis team could tie up a Guard infantry squad (or the one-in-a-billion Grot horde who's slaver doesn't have a Power Klaw...), as I said - it's all they can do. They won't be getting back their points investment any time soon, whereas if you use them for shooting they can tear up their points worth of anything, not just medeocre infantry, very quickly.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 03:19   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

It could work, just make sure that you are only assaulting isolated units. If the guard can bring an officer with a powerfist or a swarm of reinforcements in on you in the next turn then they will bog down and destroy your pricy suits. I do on occasion use crisis suits as an assault force, but they ussually do more damage shooting than in HtH.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 03:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

I HAVE found out that that a Shas'o can actually win combats against small-ish units along the lines of Daemonettes single handedly! Not gonna happen every time, but he CAN pull it off. The shield generator really helps as well as having as many wounds as your typical daemon prince!

Still its a last resort and you REALLY shouldn't rely on it happening
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 03:27   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

My friend's Shas'O once outfought a squad of Assault Terminators, killed one, broke their morale, and sent them packing. It's possible but the odds are so thin I won't bother calculating them... I still say that your last resort should be to hide in terrain and pump every shot you can into your target, though; proactive is sometimes worse than reactive, esspecially when reactivity comes with an I10 bonus attached.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 04:01   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

I have found that deep-striking Crisis suits work pretty well for exterminating specialist units like Eldar Pathfinders or the like. Take one turn of jump-shoot-jump and then go for it. That said, given our high firepower, almost any enemy we charge is going to be tying us up, rather than the other way around. I wouldn't charge anything you don't think you can destroy outright within a turn, which narrows your choices down to only a handful of units in very specific circumstances.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 05:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

True battlesuites are not that shabby in close combat but compared to other units in the game they are very expencive for their abilities. They are a whole lot more effective at shooting stuff than slashing or bashing stuff. Assault is a last resort. My Shas'O has killed death cult assasines and assault marines in close combat, am I happy about it? Of course not, getting into close combat was never my intention in the first place but ya know what? He also survived. Still the Shas'O is one of the only suits I would actually send into close combat. I might charge Stealth Suits just for the number of attacks to try and lend a hand to drones and Firewarriors engaged with something like a unit of storm troopers but thats about it and only if they had nothing to shoot at. Charging with any Tau unit is a bad, bad, bad idea. Kroot arent as assault oriented as they look either, on the charge devastating but they do not have the staying power. There just is not a unit in the Tau army (excluding perhaps O'Shovah) that does well in cc and charging with would be a good idea.

Can the Tau charge? Yes, Should they? Absolutely not. I have almost never encountered a situation where charging would be better than letting rip with guns blazing.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 05:18   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

well friby death to guards men is all ways fun but hey lets look at it what where you thing

2 crisis suit set up with flamer, fusion, 2 gun drones each?

1 shas'vre with flamer, fusion, 2 gun drones and a HW multi traker just for the fun of it

so 3 crisis suit and 6 drones for those who where confused

shooting first

from the gun drones would give 2 * 7/9 *with a possible pin

the flamers will get what 3 models each so thats 6 kills

okey if you wherent fighting a conscript unit they are all ready runing for the hill or pined with one man left. assult results in flying friby death. okey so let say they make it into the next unit standing next to them at ful strenght

rigth next CC battle drones kill 1 guards men

shas'vre hits and kills 5/9 guards men

guards men hit all 9 of them cause 2 * 1/4 *wounds they all go on the drone *1 * 1/8 *drones dead

2 criss suits hit back kill 5/9 each times

so total guards men dead 2 2/3's and 1 1/8 of drone dead. rounding 3 GM and 1 drone

if they run its I4 against I3 odds stack against the GMs *

thought looking at it i rather not consolidat in to the next group and keep out of charge range thought that depends on what other wepoanry is around. if there is a couple men left i would say do it other wise keep your nose out of it and flame them to death next turn
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 05:23   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

What's really cool is when your opponent thinks that Tau HAVE to lose automatically in close combat. I played an Eldar guy like that once. My Shas'O killed a guardian squad (in close combat) and my Fire Warrior team killed a squad of Guardian Jetbikes! (in close combat). I think that was a bit flukey though.

Shas'O's can do alot of damage in close combat, but their much better off shooting.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 06:27   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Totally underestimated.

Well the question you have to ask yourself is "Will I do more damage shooting and then assaulting?" ( remember once you assault, your CS will be tied up in HTH for a while) Or "Will I do more damage shooting each turn?". Sure CS have decent stats assault wise, but when you take a burst cannon (the weakest weapons other then flamer) that can pump out 3 STR5 shots a turn, getting tied down in HTH and putting out only 2 STR5 hits a turn (with no AP, and dependent on your WS) seems more like a loss of potential, rater then a good idea.
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