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Drones in XV8 Squads
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 21:04   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Drones in XV8 Squads

What do you all do about the majority armour and toughness rule when dealing with drones in xv8 teams? I can't really find out what works well and I would like some suggestions. For the time being I have just cut them out and I hope for the best with my xv8s.

~Ace
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 21:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

Drones are for large broadside teams of 2-3, preferrably 3. 3 with 6 drones at over 24" distance should live quite awhile.
with an ethereal to make them near fearless your good to go.

Stealths are good with them aswell imo. 6 stealths with 2 drones!
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 21:26   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

6 gun drones with twin linked burst cannons is a good replacement for the stealth suit if your fighting nids with out shooting
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 21:35   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

?

well 6 drones cost #pts, stealth costs #.

Both area good against tyranids though, esp if you can have kroot nearby.


Point costs omitted -mace
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 23:18   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

Forum search..

Tau Drones and the 4th edition rules
Drones at 4th ed. Rules
Is adding a drone to a broadside unit a good idea?
Gun Drones
Whats the Problem???

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=11785.msg192635#msg192635 date=1127291792]
Forum search for drones. 28 pages.

Heres a few threads I recognise that discuss the problems.. (I think..)
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=10053.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9163.0
<snip>
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=6645.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=7611.0
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=5796.0
A lot of info there in drones etc..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ace of Spades
What do you all do about the majority armour and toughness rule when dealing with drones in xv8 teams? I can't really find out what works well and I would like some suggestions. For the time being I have just cut them out and I hope for the best with my xv8s.

~Ace
Now for your question, The only time I use drones attached to a squad are with stealthsuits, to gain free stealth ability for the drones, and to boost the squad size (and add the chance for pinning)


Quote:
Originally Posted by vsurma
?

well 6 drones cost #pts, stealth costs #.

Both area good against tyranids though, esp if you can have kroot nearby.


Point costs omitted -mace
I believe he meant 3 crisis suits armed with TL Burst Cannons with drone controllers and two drones each?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanfeix
6 gun drones with twin linked burst cannons is a good replacement for the stealth suit if your fighting nids with out shooting
I don't think so. Stealthsuits have their Stealth Field, and I think Crisis suits can take better weapons rather than TL BC's w/ DCs.

Points
3 Crisis suits, including 1 Shas'vre (and bonded), each with TL BCs, a DC with 2x GDs = 215 Points
6 Stealthsuits, including 1 Team Leader (and bonded), with DC and 2x GDs = 217 Points
- Equal here..

Shots
CS's - 9 TL BC shots, 6 TL PC shots - 15 TL shots in total.
SS's - 18 BC shots, 2 TL PC shots - 20 shots in total, 2 of them TL'ed.
Both squads have the same range.
Stealthsuits have more shots, but Crisis suits have Twin-linked. Crisis suits get 0.75 more hits statistically.
- Equal again..

Wounds/survivability
CS's - 12 wounds in total.
SS's - 8 wounds in total.
Both squads have the same armour save. BUT Stealthsuits have stealth fields - can't be seen by other models (e.g. the big bugs) and count as being in cover if assualted.
Edit: Fixed number of wounds. Crisis suits have more wounds, but it they don't count as many more models, and can still get outnumbered in combat.
- Stealthsuits come out better IMO

Misc abilities
Stealthsuits can Infiltrate? Crisis suits can't.

Conclusion
I would say stealthsuits are better for horde killing, that's what they are there for. They have Stealth Armour, and can Infiltrate, and are probably more survivable than Crisis suits. The crisis suits are better off taking other weapons than TL Burst cannons and being outnumbered by the drones they take.
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Old 09 Dec 2005, 23:55   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

first thing why the [Edited] did you add shas'vre to the crisis suit it wasted pionts why dint you wast pionts on the stealths instead your comparison is fawled

againt hormguants your stealth generator wont save you but if you have a line of drone which die toget you out of combat on the other hand you get out of combat. hence why i said "nids without shooting" sorry its bad english, should say "nid without guns".

next thing you cant count wounds 6 gun drones plus 3 crisis suit (Which have two wounds) is 12.

stealths can infilrate yet again nids 24" charge i raver set up 24+" and wait for the nids to move other wise its suicide. any closer and your nid food if you loss first turn.

like it or not my crisis suit comes in at better killer (with out any other upgrades on ethier) at 23 25/121 pionts spent to kill a guant and the stealth suit got 24

i wouldent suggest using it any where else but it works and can even make it thought an assualt of hormaguants

have a nice day

[size=7pt]Edit by Aunny: Please refrain from swearing. Future events will lead to smiting. Thanks. [/size]
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 01:14   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

The Shas'vre upgrade was added to reduce the difference between the point costs of the two squads, in order to have a more accurate comparison.

Fixed up number of wounds. My mistake.

I can't claim to be completely familiar with the Tyranid Codex, but both squads (crisis suits and stealth) have the same range (and jetpacks), and so are equally vulnerable to assualt.

Depending on the terrain on the table, the mission, and set up, the infiltrate ability could be handy to get into a better firing position, than what is possible for the crisis suits. Not necessarily closer to the tyranids, but probably in another table quarter etc.

Now, regarding assualt - I think the stealth suits come out better. Although they have slightly lower Strength, their Initiative and number of attacks are the same as that of Crisis suits. As I mentioned - they count as being in cover if assualted - that is, I10 (assuming that the nid's don't have flesh hooks I think). For Tau, this is a big advantage, especially when fighting a CC orientated army, like the one you hypothesised. The stealthsuits will actually get 14 attacks, before the enemy unit even thinks about attacking.. compared to the crisis suits, that will be lucky to get a few attacks, as at best, the drones will strike simultaneously with whatever tyranid unit they face (apart from rippers).

Sacrificing the drones to allow the crisis suits to escape combat? Congrats, you now have a unit that will most likely be under half strength, or very close to it, that's probably also falling back.

The way I see it, the whole point is to avoid combat. However, seeing as thats probably not possible, the stealthsuits have an advantage, whilst I see the crisis suits as having a disadvantage. Sure they might survive, but then they'll be in the same position as before, with tyranids chasing them down, and with reduced shooting efficiency, as well as having reduced moral, as the drones count as models in a unit, for the purposes of moral, holding objectives, and victory points.

Looking at the big picture, I think stealthsuits fill the role just fine, there are bigger things for crisis suits to worry about and take care of than the small units.


And obviously, I would agree that I wouldn't use this any other situation other than the one you stated, IF I was to ever use it.
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 18:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

Quote:
Looking at the big picture, I think stealthsuits fill the role just fine, there are bigger things for crisis suits to worry about and take care of than the small units.
Totally. I don't ever really use Burst Cannons on my Crisis suits, even when paired with a flamer. You don't get enough crisis suits to really make a dent in a big mob of tyranids coming at you with burst cannon; that's why I like big Stealth squads; That many shots can kill a lot of rodents. Suits are like the ASpect Warriors of the tau; you suit them to one purpose, and use them only for that, and Stealth Suits are the infantry killer. Decking crisis suits out to kill infantry is okay if you're using somethign like flamers, but as a rule, I prefer to outfit them to kill bigger things with toughnesses 6 and above, because the Tau lack a bulk of anti-high toughness fire. (Ionheads and railheads are prettymuch your only other options).

Definately take Drones in the Stealth squads; take as many as you can (sadly, I think that's only two, isn't it? For the one team leader?). That'll work the majority toughness and save to YOUR advantage, and it adds more 5/5 shots.

In Crisis squads, take two. It allows you two extra T4 3+Sv wounds (Because of majority toughness/save--if the Crisis suits are in the majority, the drones mimic the Suits...right? I hope? )
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 18:29   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

Drones they are so important i learned the hard way. my first battle i went with no drones and i got killed easy but then i added them in a i won allot thats the way to go
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 20:04   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Drones in XV8 Squads

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=14773.msg234967#msg234967 date=1134180866]
Depending on the terrain on the table, the mission, and set up, the infiltrate ability could be handy to get into a better firing position, than what is possible for the crisis suits. Not necessarily closer to the tyranids, but probably in another table quarter etc.
have you ever played nids? nids set up as a hord army you dont want to be in an enemy in table quarter you become a set steping stone


Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=14773.msg234967#msg234967 date=1134180866]
Sacrificing the drones to allow the crisis suits to escape combat? Congrats, you now have a unit that will most likely be under half strength, or very close to it, that's probably also falling back.
congrationaltions your stealths are dead. you cant beat hormguants in CC and you a fool ever to think you can. while in CC no one can shoot the hormagaunts. no one behind the hormoguants can be shot unless they are taller and any nids play worth his salt has got synaspe covering the hormaguants group and is probley in or behind the squad. these things come in groups of 32. if your stealth group ever make it out of combat the stealths too will under half strenght.

here a reference if you want to see the

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranid...ence-sheet.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=14773.msg234967#msg234967 date=1134180866]
as the drones count as models in a unit, for the purposes of moral, holding objectives, and victory points.
not ture re-read your BGB: its only for moral you count models, for VP and Holding objectices you count wounds

pluse the kill abilty isnt reduce as much when compared to the loss of the stealth suits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by [ mace
link=topic=14773.msg234967#msg234967 date=1134180866]
Looking at the big picture, I think stealthsuits fill the role just fine, there are bigger things for crisis suits to worry about and take care of than the small units.
crisis suits take up the same slot crisis suits do so what the hell are you talking about. if you've got spare suits its not wasting

any way i found playing nids that i would rather talk drones instead of stealth suits

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