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How do you make an army without kroot?
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Old 30 Nov 2005, 13:45   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default How do you make an army without kroot?

Hey all
i have a question, how do you make a Tau army without kroot?
cos you need close combat, when you are attacked by asault marines you are almost defeated.
can someone help me with this?

~ Ko'Vash
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Old 30 Nov 2005, 13:59   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make a army without kroot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko'Vash
Hey all
i have a question, how do you make a Tau army without kroot?
cos you need close combat, when you are attacked by asault marines you are almost defeated.
can someone help me with this?

~ Ko'Vash
don't take them then. rely on either a massively powerful shooty element, or stay mechanised, and use your manoeverability to avoid any close combat.
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 03:53   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

Kroot can be a points sink. And everyone know that I hate points sinks.

A full squad of kroot (no shaper) is 140 points. that is just 5 points under a good ion-head. A smaller squad of 16 is 112 points. That's still allot, although it is probably the best medium between the two extremes (plus that's how many you get in one box and I'm cheap). The absolute minimum squad of 10 kroot is 70 points. Considering what you get, that's not a good use of points either.

Their also seems to be a general concusses that kroot are some kind of close combat shock troop, rather like korn berserkers or assault terminators. This is true to a point: If they get the charge, then kroot can decimate armies with lower inactive (I) values such as necrons and IG.

The thing is, they really rely on getting the charge. If they do not get it, then they will usually be wiped out in the first two turns of CC. A kroot squad of 16 kroot gets 48 S4 WS4 attacks on the charge at I3. Nothing to laugh at for 112 points. But if that same squad of kroot gets charged, then they will only get 32 attacks when they get charged, although at a better inactive (unless the enemy has frag grenades).

They can win when they get charged but only if
A) the are in cover, preferably a forest and
B) the opposing force isn't exactly awesome at CC themselves (so no berserkers and striking scorpions, unless you have a death wish) [i]and[i]
C) they outnumber the charging enemy by at least 2:1

Don't get me wrong though. Kroot can be good. With the ability to infiltrate and be useful in combat (but only on the charge) they are a good option, but I always make sure that I have enough tau units to work successfully on their own before I add any kroot.

In short, kroot are a decent (as in "not krootox awful") choice that should always be considered, but they should never be fielded in huge numbers, unless you have some kind of fetish for them. I have seen armies with as many as 30-60 kroot backed up by tau suits do relatively well, but only for veterans.
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 04:03   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

Kroot are by no means what you would call an "assaulty unit." On the charge they can be utterly devastating but in anything drawn out they are going to get torn apart. Numbers are their ally. But also remember that you do not need kroot. I happily play without a single one in any of my lists so far. Whether I am doing static, hybrid or mechanized it doesnt matter, no kroot. I just dont like them and havent bought any except the 11 I already have. With target priority and mechanized tactics it is not so hard to get out of assaults. I can generally get through a game without playing a single assault (the fact that I am still not very good with the assault rules is testament to this). Use your imagination and some skill and its really not hard.

Take a look around at army lists and review tactics as there are many that have been posted and you will see that kroot can be a very good thing to have but for no reason do you HAVE to take them. Tau armies can be very deadly and effective without a single assault element. Its what all our str 5 and long range guns are for, so use em.
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 06:25   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

I've found that kroot can be a huge thorn in the side of my opponent. Especially when infiltration is permitted (when ISN'T it permitted? Rarely) kroot can get into a very pesky posistion and hold it against the enemy, or advance on a weak spot in the enemy line. Kroot are certainly no match for the elite of the elite combat troops, and will probably be killed. However, I have seen kroot hold up death company and terminators for quite some time before being scattered, thus allowing me to focus my firepower on the rest of their army before utterly destroying them once they break from the kroot. Used correctly, any unit can serve you well, but especially kroot.

Tau players tend to shy away from kroot because their tactics are much different from standard tau units. Once you infiltrate them, they cannot have a transport and must footslog around the board. But so what? If you infiltrate them well, a very easy task, they can hold off many more points than they are actually worth and often WIN. Kroot are also very cost effective. Not only can they out-shoot fw's against any target that doesn't have a 5+ save (points wise) but they excel at killing units in cover, as they only have ap6, it doesn't matter whether or not the target is in cover. Then, when the kroot finally do assault, each one gets 2 str 4 attacks! A unit of 20 being charged is a huge deterrent to all but the finest assault troops.

Basically, kroot that are used well can do a better job than many other tau units... they fill a great role on tables with plenty or medium amounts of terrain.

However, an army without kroot (I've done it plenty of times) must rely more heavily upon mobility and trickery. See the mech tau bible for more info on using a mobile strike force to avoid your enemies whilst pummeling them. It can easily be done, personally I see not taking kroot as a disadvantage... as do my opponents, who despise how I always seem to get those kroot right where they DON'T want them. Honestly, they are despised more than railheads or broadsides. ;D
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 07:30   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

things to solve this problem

A. get a different army.
B. wait till the vespids come out.
C. get another army until the vespids come out.
D. just mount all troops on df and forget braodsides for hammerheads.
E. buy kroot

i hope one of these options helps you O0
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 10:06   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XV23 SPACE BATTLESUIT
things to solve this problem

A. get a different army.
B. wait till the vespids come out.
C. get another army until the vespids come out.
D. just mount all troops on df and forget braodsides for hammerheads.
E. buy kroot

i hope one of these options helps you* *O0
What the?

A. Very useful, bravo...
B. The Vespids aren't going to be like Kroot, so they wouldn't be a replacement.
C. Combinaton of answer A & B.
D. As already stated by others being more mobile does help.
E. That's a great solution...

:
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 10:18   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

i am sure kroot must be really good becaue everyone else goes on about them and i can see their plus sides but i just like the idea of a uniform tau force and that involves no kroot. i might (when i get round to it) convert some fire warriors into an infiltrating type unit to proxy for kroot... might also do a silmilar thing for vespides... All in all its very possible not to include kroot in a successful army. Stealth teams can also infiltrate, and as much as kroot are supposidly a cc unit, as stated above, it is still undesireable to get them into combat with assault troops - they will die. Or they will get into and loose a war of attrition with a tactical squad. Give me my sms ion head anyday.
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 10:54   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko'Vash
Hey all
i have a question, how do you make a Tau army without kroot?
cos you need close combat, when you are attacked by asault marines you are almost defeated.
can someone help me with this?

~ Ko'Vash
Close combat? ~looks left~ do you need close combat? ~looks right~ how about you? ~looks back at Ko'Vash~ We don't need no stinkin close combat!


Seriously, though, if you feel a need to field close combat troops, tau probably isn't the army for you. They are specifically designed to suck at it. The solution for assault marines is either to kill them before they get to you, or not to be there when they arrive. Either kill them or run away from them. Tau can't fight them hand to hand.
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Old 01 Dec 2005, 13:17   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you make an army without kroot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
Close combat?* ~looks left~ do you need close combat?* ~looks right~ how about you?* ~looks back at Ko'Vash~* We don't need no stinkin close combat!
Indeed.

But honestly, Tau cannot survive in close combat, and even Kroot have their hands full sometimes as well (charging a 16 Kroot into 20 Dark Eldar Warriors is not a good idea! [size=7pt](And I learned the hard way...)[/size]. Tau must avoid close combat like the plauge, for it will wipe them out very fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko'Vash
cos you need close combat, when you are attacked by asault marines you are almost defeated.
Then the problem there is mobility; for if you stay mobile then you really shouldn't be in trouble...just an uphill struggle!
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