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[Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 06:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

==== Incoming Transmission====

Tau Commanders, I seek your counsel. My Cadre has been peacefully stationed on the Gue'la world of Daimor II on the border of the Damocles Gulf. We have recieved a hostile communication from an unknown Imperial fleet en route to our location. The transmission was not recieved entirely but Por'Ui Godan has confirmed that the message reads as follows:

// Ready your forces the Witch *-unters have come to cla*m seige and *- po*-nd you*- p*--- army //

Our Kauyon has only undergone basic Shas training and completed several combat excercises in the Training Dome. We have never faced these Hunters of Witches and do not know what to expect beyond examining the central records on their activities. I have submitted our personnel and equipment list with this message and I hope your reply reaches us in time.

For the Tau'va!

- Shas'Ui Tau'n Veran [Kauyon Kamper Unit 17 - Communications Officer]

==== End Transmission ====


My friend recently got into WH40K and bought a Witch Hunters army. I have never seen him play WH40K but he has a gaming background of Magic the Gathering and Warmachine. His tactics are most likely very sound and he's probably a better general than I am. You can find my army list by clicking on my signature, I have everything listed there and in the active/inactive units section. You can suggest any combination of units, even those poor Gun Drones who are serving their duties as Roomba floor vacuums while they wait for action. I also can switch weapons out for the suits and the hammerhead. I would rather NOT tailor an army to defeat the Witch Hunters but I would appreciate some advice on what to use and how to use it. The battlefield will probably be 4x5 of an unknown gametype. Also, I am a total newbie, despite my participation in these boards. I barely know the rules but I do know that people often fudge their movement, gaining an extra inch or so when they move. Please help me!
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 07:18   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Frpm a general perspective after perusing your list, it seems you have 4(?) FW teams, two of which can be made mobile by mounting in a devil fish, you have two broadsides and one hammer head available (active list) and a junk load of crisis suits, and full stealth team.

Keep in mind, your idea or stradegy should be using your speed and mobility against the enemy. Grab cover as quickly as you can with your non-mounted Fire Warrior squads. Position them in places where they can give you good covering fire, make sure you can get them in place within the first turn, or second at the latest. You want to use your stealths probably in a forward position, in the best place to harrass your enemy - I would suggest a flanking strike.

I would mount the other two fire warrior squads in the fishies (sorry, I had to...) and move them either to a flank, in the rear, or right into cover with reasonable distance to make life some hell for your opponent. Or, even dismount them, fire, and then remount them and move them somewhere else; repeat. EIther way, remember that you have a powerfully armed shooty-bunch and cheap transports with tough armor. Use them!

You can use your crisis suits either offensively or defensively. I would suggest a little of both. Don't be afraid to use your plasma rifles and missle pods against your opponents troops. They will do some damage. You can use cov er, pop up out of cover to lay down some withering fire, and then retreat back to cover. This will help reduce the enemy ranks, while securing your crisis suits.

However, all in all, the first rule to mobile warfare is to take out your opponents heavy's first. If he mounts any of his troops in transports - Take them out! Your hammer head and broadsides will be ideal for this. If he has no transports, then take out his tanks and other heavy weapons. You also have the very cool submunission option for the railgun/ A few good shots will rip some holes in his lines.

Several key summarizations: Move your stationary fire warrior teams into place quickly to help provide covering fire. Remember line of sight is important, so make sure you will get some decently clean shots at him. Use your high mobility to your advantage, and the stealths to keep him busy. If you need to take another turn to gain some good ground, harrass his troops with your crisis suits and stealths, it will most likely draw his attention away from your stradegy, and he'll focus on trying to strike at the crisis's and stealths instead. Take out his heavy armor and transports early on, within your first turn would be the smartest time. Don't wait until he can outmanuever you.

Hope this helps.

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Old 20 Nov 2005, 12:40   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

why in the world would you "grab cover" against sisters??? Their bolters don't AP you, and their flamers deny all cover saves... Just shoot them! Anyway, SOBs are a very short-ranged army, you should be able to use superior mobility to severely limit their ability to shoot at you. I concur with the idea to mount two of your FW squads. Try to keep the dismounted ones in 24-30" range, and definitely keep them out of 12" range. Take deathrain suits to pop their rhinos, and they should have very little left that can move 12"/turn. If you can move faster/farther, you win.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 14:40   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
why in the world would you "grab cover" against sisters??? Their bolters don't AP you, and their flamers deny all cover saves... Just shoot them! Anyway, SOBs are a very short-ranged army, you should be able to use superior mobility to severely limit their ability to shoot at you. I concur with the idea to mount two of your FW squads. Try to keep the dismounted ones in 24-30" range, and definitely keep them out of 12" range. Take deathrain suits to pop their rhinos, and they should have very little left that can move 12"/turn. If you can move faster/farther, you win.
Heh, just habit. I agree, the sob's (That's just funny) are short-ranged, in all I think the tactics are sound that I gave.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 14:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UN17
My friend recently got into WH40K and bought a Witch Hunters army. I have never seen him play WH40K but he has a gaming background of Magic the Gathering and Warmachine. His tactics are most likely very sound and he's probably a better general than I am. You can find my army list by clicking on my signature, I have everything listed there and in the active/inactive units section. You can suggest any combination of units, even those poor Gun Drones who are serving their duties as Roomba floor vacuums while they wait for action. I also can switch weapons out for the suits and the hammerhead. I would rather NOT tailor an army to defeat the Witch Hunters but I would appreciate some advice on what to use and how to use it. The battlefield will probably be 4x5 of an unknown gametype. Also, I am a total newbie, despite my participation in these boards. I barely know the rules but I do know that people often fudge their movement, gaining an extra inch or so when they move. Please help me!
Hey man

Well, it will really depend if he's playing just Witch Hunters, or more specifically the Sisters of Battle. Either way, you should not have a terrible time playing him. The Witch Hunters are not a very resilient army, and can range from cheap Imperial Guard like units, to Storm Troopers, to Sisters of Battle, so flak armor to power armor in a way. Their vehicles are weak, nothing with high armor values (sole exception to the very rare land raider). Mostly the army consists of rhinos or chimeras at best, with the Exorcist (A13) being the heaviest. There are ways to get better tanks, but as Tau, no armor poses a real threat to you.

For more information on the Sister of Battle, here at TauOnline, we have a Tactica on the main site, with hosted articles. You will find this one:

::: A Tau Guide against Pure Sisters of Battle ::: (<--- In case of confusion, that is an URL)

It should give you a quick run down as to what to expect and watch out for, from a Tau perspective, for the Sisters of Battle.

[hr]

Now, aside from the Sisters of Battle, you should know about the Inquisitorial side of the Witch Hunters, which will pose you very little threat:

Inquisitors - They can pack a few fun psychic powers, but overall, you will not see anything from them that is overly threatening. The worse case scenario, is an Inquisitor with several henchmen, all packing heavy bolters. Otherwise, they're just solid victory points for the Tau submunition pie plate. This unit may buy a Land Raider though, or Rhino or Chimera at that. Typically, these characters are purchased in order to afford Assassins. The other use they have, is utility. The liber heresius will be featured on an Inquisitor and it will help him to decide deployment, more often, which could give you a problem in terms of getting the best terrain on your side, or not.

Assassins - Assassins can be a nightmare for Tau. Not just any assassin, but more specifically, the assassin: The Callidus. She is terrible for Tau. She shows up anywhere on the board, mid-game, and immediately attacks. You cannot avoid this at all (unless you're entire army is mounted in skimmers). Even then, she can auto-stun your skimmer and hide out. She will most definitely kill any powerful suit you have, or broadside team, as soon as possible. Her attacks are two fold, template action, based on leadership (which works great against Tau's average leadership and is AP1, ie: no saves) and her combat attacks ignore all saves, including invulnerable ones. She is a beast. To make things worse, she allows him to move one of your squads up to 6 inches in any direction before the game starts. So if you had key cover in deployment with a soft squad, like Kroot, or some pathfinders, or anything like that, they may find their first turn out in the open, getting sprayed with heavy bolters. She will seriously give you headaches with all this action from one single model.

For more information on Assassins and the Callidus in general, see this thread: Officio Assassinorum Operatives - Know Thy Assassins.

Acro Flagellants - These murder machines are T5 and pack invulnerable saves. Once in combat, it's game-over for you. However, in the shooting phase, you can make a real mess of them, since their Inv. Save is a 4+, but your weapons are strong enough to force multiple rolls. Typically, people will hide this unit behind a vehicle and let them shadow it a while. Watch out for this, because once they're even semi-close to you, they can be activated. Once activated, these Arcos suddenly have Holy Rage and burst forward like Berserkers do, with automatic frenzy in a way. They roll extra dice for movement and go straight to attacking you. In this mode, they also have D6 attacks each, all power weapons of course. So watch out! If they trail a rhino, stun that rhino ASAP. The good news, is that they are very expensive, so a unit of 6 will bust the 200 point mark, and be a wonderful victory point target for you.

Repentia - Repentia are much like the Arcos, but they're far weaker. They're just normal girls, with 4+ saves, but each one has an Eviscerator. They also can move quickly with Holy Rage rolls, adding dice to their movement, but worse off, if they fail moral, they will not run, they will run towards you, even faster. So if you shoot them, shoot them dead. A single submunition will remove them. Rapidfire pulse rifles will also remove them. All of your weapons will wound these girls on a 2+ as it is, so they're really no true threat to Tau. They're expensive, so taking them down can grant you a load of points.

Storm Troopers - Overall, you already know about these fellows. They're quite good, but short range. They can take transports of course, but mainly, their real danger lies in that they come in small squads, with potent meltas or plasmas and can be a nuisance to root out of cover in terms of scoring victory points. Overall, they are not a tough nut to crack at all for Tau, so generally you shouldn't be worried with these guys. They hold no surprises in this army either, so point and shoot and it really works.

Zealots - This unit is not in the codex, but it's very popular for Witch Hunter players, old and new. They are a horde unit, no different than guardsmen, but with a 6+ save. Their strength is that they have mass numbers for very cheap (ie: 20 for 100 points kind of cheap). Their other strength is that they treat moral opposite the norms. When they have negative modifiers, they're positive instead. They're normal foot sloggers, so they're slow. They can have a few shooting weapons, such as meltas, but nothing with range. In combat, they're nasty, as they can get up to 4 eviscerators in a single squad. If massed up, they can be a problem, when powered by a Book of St. Lucius, which will make them near fearless. Typically they're too easy to blast away, but their real function is to be a decoy, or to score points when the rest of the army is focused on. The point is, they can be in mass numbers for very little points, and sometimes, too many is just too many depending on the point size of the game. You may not see these ever; but they are worth a mention.

Penitent Engines - These are crazy dreadnoughts, I'm sure you've seen the models. They're weak though, in the shooting phase. The bad news, is that they have Holy Rage, and so move like berserkers and all, having extra dice in the movement phase. They can be very fast. Worse yet, they come in squads of up to 3, so you could see as many as 9 of these things coming at you. The good news, is that they're A11 and open-topped. Against Tau, they're walking exploding tin-cans. You should have no problem keeping them destroyed with missile pods. Just mind that you do penetrate, because they cannot be stunned (they're crazy after all). It's a do or die thing.

Orbital Strike - You probably won't see this, since there is no model required, but if he has an Inquisitor he could buy a cheap ordnance strike for you. It will cover a piece of terrain, completely and he can choose where to drop his plate in that terrain. Typically it's used to deny opponents key cover areas, with fear of S10 AP1 ordnance blasts falling on their heads. Overall you probably shouldn't worry about this, but it is something that some may sneak into a game when they know they're facing someone who loves to use big terrain and cover to the fullest. Once it starts falling, it keeps falling every turn. If you suspect one, don't put all your eggs in one basket and spread out a bit and you'll probably avoid it (it scatters like barrage).

Other than that, you will have the inducted allies to watch out for, which come in the shape of Imperial Guard and Space Marines. All the normal units you can expect are available, including the Leman Russ, Land Speeders, etc. But I don't need to go into those for you most likely. Otherwise, they can also have Daemonhunter allies, so you may see some Grey Knights perhaps!

Anyhow - I hope that fast forwards you up to knowing a bit more what to expect from your friend. Make sure to read that article above, and if you have anymore questions on the Witch Hunters in general, then I will invite you to read our Witch Hunters - Know Thy Self which will introduce you to the entire army and everything in it.

Cheers!
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 15:01   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

That deservesd a karma addition.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 15:16   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Grab cover if there are heavy bolters.

March, sisters having very little that can move 12"? Have you forgotten about seraphim?

Sisters are a fast, short-range firefight army. Of course, they can also massacre you in combat since you are Tau.

Broadsides will be useful, but difficult to use. You need to destroy any exorcists ASAP, to keep your hammerhead safe. It gets D6 shots that will glance your hammerhead 1/3 times, so on a lucky roll he will send you down. If he decides to use it on your devilfish it can cause them problems. It is medium ranged, as tanks go. If you can force him to deploy it in a corner you may be able to ignore it for a few turns.

As always, fast things should die first. Seraphim, arco-flagellants, and the like NEED TO GO. Also be sure to get a full turn of every unit on the table firing at something with a 2+ save. You do not want whatever it is to live.

With two broadsides, you can afford to give your hammerhead an Ion cannon, which will help immensely at taking out sisters. However, assassins of various stripes can easily kill the isolated broadsides. It may be best to take a railhead anyway. Especially as he may be carrying inducted IG and the like. Submunitions are awesome for them.

Maintain maximum firing distance at all times.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 18:04   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Martyr pattern cannonesses will give you fits.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 18:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Thank you all for the information so far! I have read MalVeaux's Witch Hunter's guide before I posted, which is why I am so worried. It seems they can practially take any unit from the Imperium all in one army. Not to mention, the majority of the WH forces are berserk CC rushers who are fast and may run me into a corner if I am not quick enough with the hit & run Devilfish. On a 4x6 board, I would feel much more comfortable, but the store boards are a little bit smaller.

Then there's that Callidus assassin... Deploys anywhere in my units and attacks immediately, no save. Good thing I don't have an Ethereal or else my entire army will be running on turn 2. Heavy bolters are also a concern since they outrange my guns and tear Fire Warriors apart. To eliminate them, I would have to get closer, which is exactly what they want me to do. I'm not too worried about the crazy flail creatures since they are CC only, cannot transport, and come in small packs. That Exorcist tank is a little worrying... It can outrange every unit I have except the Railgun toting ones. Is the Orbital Strike visible to me on the first turn? Or can the opponent place it on any terrain he wants when it arrives? Or does he need to write the location down on a piece of paper? Playing against the Witch Hunters is like playing the entire Imperium at the same time, they're such a flexible and interesting army.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 19:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Advice] Unknown Witch Hunter fleet on a mission to purge Kauyon Kampfer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UN17
. Not to mention, the majority of the WH forces are berserk CC rushers who are fast and may run me into a corner if I am not quick enough with the hit & run Devilfish. On a 4x6 board, I would feel much more comfortable, but the store boards are a little bit smaller.

Well, small boards are always going to be a problem for you to play against, whether its WH, tyranids space marines or other.

But if he's taking the HTH guys(pentient engines, acroflaggelents or sister repentias) you really have not much to worry about. Assassins, death cult or otherwise, are a much bigger problem.


Quote:
Then there's that Callidus assassin... Deploys anywhere in my units and attacks immediately, no save. Good thing I don't have an Ethereal or else my entire army will be running on turn 2. Heavy bolters are also a concern since they outrange my guns and tear Fire Warriors apart. To eliminate them, I would have to get closer, which is exactly what they want me to do. I'm not too worried about the crazy flail creatures since they are CC only, cannot transport, and come in small packs. That Exorcist tank is a little worrying... It can outrange every unit I have except the Railgun toting ones. Is the Orbital Strike visible to me on the first turn? Or can the opponent place it on any terrain he wants when it arrives? Or does he need to write the location down on a piece of paper? Playing against the Witch Hunters is like playing the entire Imperium at the same time, they're such a flexible and interesting army.
Be more worried about it moving a unit around.

Exorcists and Hammerheads dueling is always fun. HH have a slight edge, but in my experience, you should take them with railguns. Just dont try it with broadsides.

Orbital strike I bleieve is turn 2 on....he can declare it on any terrain piece on the table. But it stays on that one all game. Stay away from river terrarin features.....
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