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Farsight Army vs Orks
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 02:14   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Farsight Army vs Orks

Sorry, my memory is terrible and I didn't take notes, but let's put it this way.
Three Killa Kans vs O'shovah = three dead Killa Kans. In one turn. In close combat.
Broadside vs Looted Leman Russ = lots of misses, lots of ineffective hits. What I've learned? Broadsides suck.
Two units of eight firewarriors FoF a unit of 24 grots. Why? Because I can. Grots run. Turn wasted. Game lost.
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 02:34   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

Quote:
Three Killa Kans vs O'shovah = three dead Killa Kans. In one turn. In close combat.
Not that suprising... the Monstrous Creature rules let him make a serious mess of anything without very heavy armour.

Quote:
Broadside vs Looted Leman Russ = lots of misses, lots of ineffective hits. What I've learned? Broadsides suck.
Meh, just wait for Targetting Arrays . One of my reasons for taking up the restrictive Ulthwe Strike Force list is since I never seemed to hit ANYTHING with my BS3 units.

Quote:
Two units of eight firewarriors FoF a unit of 24 grots. Why? Because I can. Grots run. Turn wasted. Game lost.
Game lost for who? Who's turn was wasted, yours because you didn't apply your firepower or his since his models were running?
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 02:35   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayruun
Three Killa Kans vs O'shovah = three dead Killa Kans. In one turn. In close combat.
I dunno if O'Shovah has special rules, but this is a bit strange. *Rules, page 73: "When engaged in close combat, enemy units must allocate their attacks between the members of a vehicle squadron, as if each vehicle was a separate unit." * *Under 4th ed, and in the absence of special rules, no individual model can split their attacks between different units. * So, in one turn, in close combat, O'Shovah should be able to kill one kan only. *
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 02:41   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayruun
Three Killa Kans vs O'shovah = three dead Killa Kans. In one turn. In close combat.
I dunno if O'Shovah has special rules, but this is a bit strange. Rules, page 73: "When engaged in close combat, enemy units must allocate their attacks between the members of a vehicle squadron, as if each vehicle was a separate unit." Under 4th ed, and in the absence of special rules, no individual model can split their attacks between different units. So, in one turn, in close combat, O'Shovah should be able to kill one kan only.
Doesn't the fact they have a weapon skill change that a bit?
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 13:09   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

I see no rule in the book anywhere that would indicate that the rules on page 73 do not apply to walkers. However, I could have missed it. If you can provide a page number that would indicate otherwise, please do so. Otherwise, I believe that page 73 covers it, and you cannot kill three kans with one model in one turn.
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 13:13   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

Maybe, like me, he plays with the overkill ethos; if you can inflict enough damage to wipe a squad like that out, you bloody well deserve to!

It's as bas as with Independent Characters...

"Oh, you can't remove him because you didn't target him."
"My Carnifex killed the squad he was with, and the Tyrant got three wounds left over. He's a two-wound HQ, and he's in striking distance, he'd dead."
"But you didn't allocate!"
"Tell that to the Tyrant..."

40K needs to have braincells included in the boxed set...
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 13:28   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

But those aren't the rules in the book. If you want to play your own game, go ahead. If you want those houserules in your club, no one is stopping you. But, that's not Warhammer 40k. Sorry.

The rulebook has a set of rules that provide a game, not a warfare simulation. Your argument is akin to asking why a queen can take a knight in chess. Clearly, a knight could whup a queen, he's got armour, a sword, a horse, and she has... well, a husband.

This is a site devoted to 40k, not a game kind of like 40k that uses common sense. You're free to dislike the rules all you want, and even change them when you play with your friends. But claiming that the way you choose to break the rules is acceptable behavior for everyone really isn't appropriate.
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 13:36   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

Considering we're on 4th Edition, I think you'd have to be very arrogant, or very stupid, to claim there are no flaws in the game...

Once upon a time (before the inbreds took over the stores), GW staff encouraged people to "read between the lines" and go with what feels right, rather than what the rulebook says.

40K is nothing like chess; chess has absolutes. You can never find yourself in a position that is not perfectly clear according to the rules. You'll never find a position where a queen is half on one square, half on another, or a knight is 1/9th of a square away from being able to take a pawn.

Thus, when a game is as vague as 40K, the players have to be able to work out the gaps... and the smart ones go with what works.

Take, for example, combat; as I recall, you have to state who you are attacking. However, it makes no sense at all that a frothing Khorne Berserker would stop hitting a Champion because the first guy he whacked was a grunt. A Warboss would always go for the biggest foe, a Tyranid would crush whoever is in front of them... there are countless areas where the rules don't make any kind of logical sense, and this is one such area. Players who want to jump up and down and scream "YOU MUST OBEY THE RULEBOOK!!!" should go play a black-and-white game, and leave the grey-area wargaming to people who can cope.
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 13:52   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

I never claimed that there were no flaws in the game.

What I said was, there are rules that are printed in the book, and in a larger community, such as one online, those should be the rules that we try to educate people about, not the personal preferences that you opt to play in your club.

However, the independent character rules do exist for a reason. The reason is that it is a game, and part of the game is the idea of feats of heroism. Heros don't get dragged down by the masses. Heros are the last ones left standing. Heros don't catch stray bullets, they're the ones that make it across no-mans land and take out the enemy machine gun nest.

Independent Character rules are designed with those tales of heroism in mind. The fact that the hero gets to live one turn longer than his units speaks to his heroic qualities. He gets one more chance to kill that tyrant. The fact that you cannot target Independent Characters follows the same logic.

People who don't want a sense of heroism in their wargaming should probably not play GW 25mm games, and should go off and find some historical game where thousands of little Napoleonic era riflemen can die namelessly in a hail of inaccurate musketfire.

Because, be honest here, there is nothing vague about whether a character is in base-to-base contact or not. This isn't a grey area, this is black and white. Either you're in base-to-base contact with an independent character, or you're not. Either you opted to allocate your attacks against the character, or against the squad. Those are black and white decisions. This isn't an issue of a fraction of an inch, this is a decision you have to make.
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Old 18 Nov 2005, 15:20   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Farsight Army vs Orks

First of all, I lost 0-1 Alpha. He controlled the loot counter with his Looted Russ.
Second, attacks allocation is kind of weird. I mean, Farsight smashes a kan. What's he gonna do, continue smashing the same kan for the rest of his turn? Or is he gonna take his blade and kill another? And another?
This is heroics. Five chops, three dead kans.

And yes, he was killed by a mob of Boyz. Twenty-four choppas kill characters real good. You can't tell me that a mob of guardians firing point-blank won't take down a Force Commander. It's just logic that you shouldn't do stupid things with heroes, like assault twenty-something genestealers.
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