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Skimmer moving fast
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 09:14   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Skimmer moving fast

Skimmers moving fast (more than 6") can only be glanced, we all know this. I want to know whether skimmers moving fast can only be glanced in HtH. I believe it can only be glanced, my Chaos opponent believes it can be penetrated. Obviously there are arguments for both cases.

One interesting argument: The Eldar FAQ clearly states that skimmers moving fast can only be glanced, including haywire grenades. Haywire grenades can ONLY be used in HtH. This boosts the HtH-glance-only argument. BUT, the Tau FAQ states nothing similar for EMP grenades. EMP grenades can also ONLY be used in HtH. This boosts the HtH-can-penetrate argument.

Help me...
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 09:26   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

your chaos players cheating and emps cant penurate a fast moving skimmer etheir
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 12:13   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

I'm pretty sure skimmers can't be penetrated by ANYTHING if they move more than 6"... only get glancing hits
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 12:25   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

As skimmers they are already difficult to hit when moving, when under the "skimmer moving fast" rules you can only be glanced by anything. This translates to a situation where the vehicle is moving so fast that nothing standing stationary to swipe at it or a single shot can hope to impact long enough to really penetrate the armor. EMP grenades cannnot pennetrate and neither can Haywire as far as I know.

If one cannot pen and the other doesnt say then it seems to me that GW is looking for a basic relation to the two. Unless it says in the weapon profile that it can always penetrate than assume its glancing only when skimmer moving fast.
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 13:05   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

sorry to intrude..just an add on question also since we're talking about skimmers and being assaulted...my brother's terminators and deep striked close to a HH, DF , FW group close to the board edge, he assaulted the HH and penetrated since it was'nt moving and took out some FW so he says he's using massacre rules and assaults my FW in the same assault turn...the DF is on the FW left side and so blocking it and he promptly puts a terminator on the left side as he says he's still assaulting and can "melee" inside the FW group..started scratching my head on that one???...is there such a thing...he's done it before with his other army (chaos SM khorne berzerkers) after he finished my kroot in CC he promptly measures the distance to the DF w/c is 6 inches away and says the same thing "massacre rules " or something then promptly assaults the DF in the same assault turn.... and as far as i understand a skimmer can just move away from assaullting infantry right?...he said i can't as they are assaulting and if he does'nt make a hit then i can move away....???any help or comments..thanks
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 13:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

Models are only engaged if in base to base and only in combat if 2 inches from an engaged model if I remember the rules correcty. So no he cannot assault UNDER your DF and hit the Firewarriors on the other side. Also only 1 assault per turn. If he massacred a unit and sweeps into another no assault is done until the next players assault phase. This keeps the almighty close combat gods of 40k from tearing through everything and causing the game to be absolutely nothing but cc.

I dont know if destroying a tank counts as a massacre result as technicly they are not even engaged. The tank can just skoot off and the attackers can still be shot so I dont think they even get a consolidate... hmm. Plus terminators cant sweeping advance as far as I know.

Also on a massacre you either move 3" consolidate or roll a D6 so only on a roll of 6 could he move 6" into your Devilfish anyway.

Oh and BTW your HH should NEVER EVER be staying still. It should always be moving more than 6" and if you say that means it cant fire than look at the Multi Tracker entry. With that upgrade the HH and even the DF can move full 12" and still fire all their weapons. Plus the protection from skimmer moving fast.
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 13:25   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

It seems that there is a cornucopia of rules being broken here.

First off, post in English. This is very hard to follow.

Firstly, a unit that deep strikes may not assault, so the terminators could not have engaged the Hammerhead. 'Sweeping advance' is technically gone, but Terminators can consolidate 3" on a victory. I don't think they get a D6 move on a massacre though, just a 3", although i could be wrong on this/

Secondly, a vehicle without a WS may not be locked in combat, and unless you are locked in combat you cannot make a consolidation or masscre move. So, had the terminators been able to assault the vehicle, they could not make consolidation / massacre moves subsequent to the combat no matter what the result.

A non-WS vehicle can simply move away from an assault in subsequent turns, so while a massacre / consolidation move can be used to attempt to initate an assault on a vehicle, the vehicle is free to move away in the other players turn, in which case no blows will be struck.

i don't follow the movement of the terminators into the FWs. Are you saying the Devilfish was in the way? You cannot move through a vehicle nor can you move through models, neither your opponents nor your own.


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Old 01 Nov 2005, 13:46   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

i apologize on the presentation of the problem in a non english format ... ...

anyway...for the terminators, i had already done my turn , he deep striked 2 inches from the hammerhead (lucky scatter dice), procedded to chew somebody up with bolter etc fire , and he chose to assault my hammerhead (that's why i did'nt move)...took that hammerhead down with assault , vehicle explosion takes out one terminator and three firewarriors (out of 12 FW), he proceeds to assault the FW, (the FW has the HH wreck on their right the board edge behind them and the DF on their left) only two FW is facing the termies but he proceeds to squeeze the termies between the vehicles and puts three on front and one on the left side of the FW group (through the DF as far as i can see) i point that out to him but he says that it's just because the termies had ploughed into the FW group and are in melee???...proceeded to chew that group out in next turn as he says i can't escape being in CC and all

For the 2nd situation..his khorne berzerkers sliced through my kroot like hot knife on butter and promptly said that being khorne berzerkers they have the option to assault another unit (at this case it was my DF) and as he stated "i have pinned your DF so you cannot move it until i have finished my next assault move" and as i said "huh!!!"...but to prevent a shouting match i let him proceed with his movements...and promptly lost the game.
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 13:52   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

Your brother is taking advantage of you. Either he's an idiot and never bothered to read any rules, or he's cheating because he knows he'll get away with it. I bet on number 2, especially if he's an older brother.
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Old 01 Nov 2005, 13:55   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Skimmer moving fast

sounds like ur bro got u there... u should read his codexes and the rule book to make sure that never happens again... Just try keeping him out of assault range and take out his termies ASAP
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