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Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 00:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

Well this is the first time I have faced a Daemonhunters force with no Grey Knights. In the terms of the campaign this was the last 1500 point battle with my army poised to assault an inquisitorial cathedral and strike a last blow against the Imperium. Here are the lists:

Tau
Shas'O, fusion blaster, shield gennerator, plasma rifle, HW MT
Crisis Team (2), shas'vre, missil pod, burst cannon, multi tracker
Monat, missil pod, burst cannon, multi tracker
Stealth Team, shas'vre, bonded
Firewarrior Team Alpha (12), bonded, shas'ui
Firewarrior Team Beta (12), bonded, shas'ui
Firewarrior Team Irregulars (10), x2 Carbines, bonded, shas'ui, photon grenades
Gun Drone Squadron (7)
Hammerhead Gunship, Railgun, SMS, the usual upgrades, pair of gun drones
Hammerhead Gunship, Railgun, Burst Cannons, the usual upgrades

Daemonhunters
Inquisitor and Retinue (7)
Storm Troopers (10), x2 plasma gun, rhino
Sorm Troopers (10, x2 melta guns, thunder hammer, rhino
Sisters of Battle (20)
Sisters of Battle(20)
Chimera
Callidus Assasine

The mission was a bunker assault, the Inquisition had two bunkers in his deployment zone and he put one sister squad in the left bunker and had the chimera holding the inquisitor behind the right one. One rhino went behind a building in his far right with the other sister squad deployed in the building. The plasma Storm Troopers went in their rhino on the far left. The callidus would deep strike. Team Alpha went in a building on my right, beta in another on my left, Irregulars in their transport sitting rather open in center with the drones and crisis forming a combat wing to the Devilfish's right. Stealths infiltrated forward and to the left to try and put an early hammer on the issolated Sisters. SMS HH went behind the building Alpha was in, the other HH behind team beta. The callidus used whisper in the ear trick to move the Devilfish forward and turn its rear armor forward.

Turn 1:
Daemonhunters
Devilfish goes boom, lose the 2 drones and a FW. Rhino on left moves forward and puts the stomp on my stealth suits killing all but 2, other rhino on right moves out. Chimera moves out a little.

Tau
I knock the turret off the chimera, kill most of the left IG squad and move the stealths back. Also shot the Rhino on the right and destroyed it, IG entangled. Squad Alpha and Beta move forward to the edge of their cover. Crisis wing moves up.

Turn 2:
Daemonhunters
I lose another stealth, the survivor starts to fall back. Inquisitor gets out of chimera and the tank moves off and positions itself to the right of a building in the center of the board that my crisis suits are now behind. Left storm troopers run off the board.

Tau:
I blow up the chimera, knock the gun off the left rhino, and not much else. Irregulars move behind nearby building.

Turn 3:
Daemonhunters
Inquisitor moves up into the bunker, sisters start to head out, IG on right head toward bunker.

Tau
Irregulars move into building, I shoot as much at the inquisitor as I can, shoot at sisters some and IG. Stealth Shas'vre fails leadership and falls back.

Turn 4:
Daemonhunters
Storm Troopers run into the bunker and form up around the now lone inquisitor. Assasine comes in and assaults the Irregulars after they take some vicious shooting. Kills them all but fails to put enough distance to either lock my Shas'O or get away.

Tau
Shas'O kills the Callidus, probably the only good thing in the game. SMS Hammerhead kills the inquisitor. Stealth falls back only 4 inches and gets another shot. More shooting.

Turn 5:
Daemonhunters, IG now fully in bunker, sisters getting there. Not much else.

Tau
Shooting, lots and lots of shooting and a few dead to show for it. IG, and both sisters now getting close to being below half strength, come on. Stealth regroups finally, denying full points for the squad for now.

Turn 6:
Daemonhunters
Same as before, next to nothing here just movement.

Tau:
IG below half, sisters on the left below half, sisters on right at exactly half, NO JUST ONE MORE!!! Stealth Shas'vre sticks and survives.

330 points to the Daemonhunters plus 500 for the sisters holding one of the bunkers for a total of 830. I destroyed 890 of the enemy army, a firm draw. If only I had killed one more sister I would have won, just one stinking enemy. I am firmly pissed at both of my static Firewarrior elements. In early fights my enemies had to come to me but now more and more as my army continues its assault the enemy firmly makes me bring the fight to them. The Irregulars do this though much of the time without support of numbers from other teams they get shot down. Both static elements didnt do a thing this game, one killed nothing, the other took 3 turns to kill a stupid rhino. Now I realize that the main mistake of this game was having them even shoot at it for 3 turns even in rapid fire I should have taken the 6 shots or so at the nearest sisters allowing my Burst Cannon HH to fire at the other sisters squad instead. This might have killed enough for both bunkers to go unheld and leave my enemy without the 500 point bonus.

I hated the stealths in this, without suitable cover to get them anywhere else I could have either deployed them near my forces and have them out of range for 3 or more turns or I put them dangerously close to the enemy. The only thing I am glad about with them is that with bonding luckily the lone survivor denied my opponent 100 points. As soon as I can drop the stealths they go the way of the kroot and leave my army. Too bad I cant do that yet.

This was a frustrating battle, the last in the campaign with my army right on the doorstep of the largest enemy strong hold and at the last moment their desperate final stand managed to push me to a stand still. So close, 1 model denied me the ultimate victory of the campaign, even if there is no real tangible gain it would have been an awesome moral win. Ah well, my army still holds more territory and more assets and has thrust farther into the enemy lines than any of the others so at least I can be happy with that. Sadly I will probably miss the mega battle next week that might have allowed me to take the cathedral.

So a brutal and bloody fight that just goes to show that to finish my army properly I need the firewarriors mechanized, the stealths gone and another Hammerhead couldnt hurt.

Other than that all I can do is tack a Callidus assasine kill onto my Shas'O's ever growing list. Despite the moral victory for the Imperium my Shas'O at least gets to claim a minor victory of his own.

So anyway this is probably my last fight of the campaign. The next one wont be for another month. Instead of trying for a Space Marine army in that short time I will just have to try my best in getting my Tau finished by then. Then maybe my Firewarriors wont be stuck in the corner any longer.

A Tie, no glorious victory, no crushing defeat just a tie. The campaign ends without a bang, just a sizzle as both armies fall over, neither victorious. How ironic.
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 04:15   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

I still don't understand how the stealths got killed like that...
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 04:51   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTau
I still don't understand how the stealths got killed like that...
Believe it or not he fired a hunter killer at them and the storm bolter killed two amazingly and the guardsmen killed another. Thats 4 of the 6 then one more died next turn to more of the storm bolter before my Firewarriors knocked it off. Stealth field doesnt do much when the enemy is only 8 inches away. Plus with 40 odd sisters with bolters trained over most of the rest of the field there were not many other places to put the stealths where they would have lasted any longer.
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 05:10   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTau
I still don't understand how the stealth's got killed like that...
T3 with 3+ saves won;t last very long against concentrated fire.... a few heavy bolters and its all over. Vash is right, they really aren't worth the points that are spent on them. for the same cost (30 points), you can get 3 FWs who will put out the same number of shots out to 30'' max, whereas the stealth's only get 24'' max (18 inch range+6 inch move). not that loading up on FWs is a good idea, but if you give them a DF then they can become very mobile (for a cost). 12'' vehicle move + 2'' deployment move + 18'' weapon range = 32'' pulse smack with a decent chance to pin. of course, you can't get a whole squad of FWs with carbines, but if you take a pair of gun drones then it (should) work ok. drones are also MUCH better at doing the role that is intended for stealth suits. for every 30 point stealth suit you buy, you could be getting 2.5 gun drones, not to mention filling up a elite slot that could be used to bring in more crisis suits (or divide you the ones you already have to make them more versatile). a filled out out squad of six stealth suits (with no wargear) will cost 180 points, whereas a squad of gun drones will cost just 96 points and only use up a little used fast attack choice (of course, you could be getting a kick @$$ pathfinder with a SMuef killing rail riffle, but thats for another thread.) when *you consider that a stealth suit is the same cost as crisis suit (well, a crisis suit with noting on it, yeah right), they really aren't worth it.

wow i got of topic.

good game, thanks for the report! hope you get to the battle, and TAKE SOME PICTURES!
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 05:20   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

At the moment getting any kind of pic online is a real pain for me, but once I can streamline the process I will. Until then the text will have to do.
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 06:25   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters



Is the hammerhead allowed to have a SMS and gun drones?....
the codex states that the drones are "safely contained in specially designed recesses" which I believe are taken up by the smart missile system? I'm not being a smart** I'm not a veteran player by far,* but am I wrong? Otherwise well written report and I can empathise with the one model tie ..frustrating.
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 11:38   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkmonkey


Is the hammerhead allowed to have a SMS and gun drones?....
the codex states that the drones are "safely contained in specially designed recesses" which I believe are taken up by the smart missile system? I'm not being a smart** I'm not a veteran player by far,* but am I wrong? Otherwise well written report and I can empathise with the one model tie ..frustrating.
I actually explained this in my last report. The gun drones are an upgrade not a weapon system so they do not replace the SMS. Also as passengers you may deploy them seperately from the deployment therefore there is no need to create a place for them to sit. Though perhaps the new codex will be more specific and cut out this option it works for now.
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 13:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

...well, at least now I know why you hate stealth suits. It's ridiculous. You deployed them too close to the enemy and got burned. The HK missile was a good move on the enemy's part. 33% of the cost of the stealth suit for about a 50/50 chance of killing one? Genius. One stormbolter...killed two suits? Highly improbable. Bet those dice rolls wouldn't come up again in 20 attempts. The IG killed one? WHAT? That's bad deployment. You parked them where more than one enemy unit could shoot at them. Dumb. If the Rhino could shoot them, the IG shouldn't have been able to, and vice versa. Personally, I would have put them out of reach of the IG, but where they could shoot at and be shot at by the rhino, if possible.

Anyway, deciding that stealth suits suck and you'll never use them again makes about as much sense as not using Hammerheads because one happens to get shot down by a single autocannon hit. These things happen. Your enemy took advantage of your deployment by massing fire against the unit that you plunked down in his face. You should learn a lesson about deployment from this, not take the childish position that "it's the model's fault" and the unit is fundamentally flawed/useless. Two of the four suits lost (before your first turn, the worst possible disadvantage!) can be attributed to bad luck (one storm bolter killing two suits is luck, pure and simple). Another one is a smart risk taken by your opponent (he'd have been an idiot to shoot that missile at a hammerhead!), and the fourth is the cost of doing business. Guess what, the enemy gets to shoot back. For the IG to kill one suit is acceptable. To lose four suits on turn one sucks...but is by no means a good reason for rejecting stealth suits entirely. Perhaps if you didn't have stealths, that HK missile would have killed a crisis suit instead? Ever think about that? Anyway, if you're getting rid of the suits, I'll give you a dollar for them ;D
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 15:28   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

First off i have to say this, nice fight. It's a real pain in the ars that you didn't kill the extra sister giving you the win.
Secondly: What has you Great and almighty Shas'o killed in his long life and does he have a name?
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Old 31 Oct 2005, 18:41   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Last Stand, 1500pts Tau vs Daemonhunters

First off March10k my dislike of stealths is not dumb and not based on this single game and is not childish. Everyone seems to love stealths and this I find stupid.

There was nowhere on the board I could have placed the stealths where they would not have been targeted by at least two units. The IG were in the rhino, thereby making it impossible to avoid one and not the other. It was a tactical risk to place them there and one that did not pay off. Nevertheless they have never done anything in any of my battles that I find usefull in any sense. Just like the kroot they simply do not fit in with my style of play. The rest of the units in my army perform their tasks and only recently have the static FW squads started to fall behind in pulling their weight. Mounting them will likely solve that problem. That leaves the Stealth suits as the only unsatisfactory element in my army and one I would like to remove as soon as possible. Until that time I am stuck with them but that does not mean I will change my mind and use stealth suits just because some people on this forum think they are amazing.

As for losing a crisis suite instead that was never even an option for the enemy so giving that comparison is flawed.

I have decided to drop stealths not just because I dont like them but because they simply do not fit in with my armies tactics. So dont call my decision stupid when your own analysis is flawed. Ive fought enough games to know what works and what doesnt for me and I find no place for the stealths that is not done better by other units. The fan boyish love for stealths around here shocks me as I find them to be the most inflexible unit in the Tau army with no real place, utter rogue elements that can work well but are relied on far too heavily and disproportionally to what they do.

As for my Shas'O, he has killed let me see.

Shas’O Ximoro’An Honored Kills:
-Space Wolf Venerable Dreadnaught
-Daemonhunter Grand Master
-Daemonhunter Terminators
-Fire Prism Grav Tank
-Pheonix Lord Baharoth
-Leman Russ
-Death Cult Assassin
-Wave Serpent
-Space Marine Commander
-Thousand Sons Sorcerer Lord
-Callidus Assasine

(note: this is just a list of the types of units killed not the numbers of each individually and there are some on that list that have been killed around half a dozen times)

Not a bad list if you ask me and at least twice as large as the combined lists from the rest of my army. And his name of course is Ximoro'An. I am probably going to add Dal'yth markings to my cadre. The cadre is named the Or'es Shi and O'An is the commander of the task force that bears the same name.
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