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Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 14:53   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

In my quest to find an answer to Space marines and Necrons I took a second look at Pathfinders and realized that when you get right down to it their a Heavy weapons squad with the option of forward deploying.

The main armarment of a pathfinder is the marker light. The carbine is just there for self-defense. This is especially true if you are using seeker missiles (both my DF and HH max out on these) . When there is a seeker missile availibe a marker light is a Str 8 ap 3 weapon which negates cover saves. Not bad. Evan without the missiles it lets an other weapon hitting on a 2+ and negates cover saves. Combine this with multiple shot weapons or the Pie plate from a rail gun and you have a devistating combination.

Next add rail rifles. Another heavy weapon with a high strenght and good AP. When you look at the cost of the rail rifle and what it can do I'd say its as good a weapon as any the the marines or gaurd can field and you don't need two people to use it.
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 16:04   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

Thing is that with Rail Rifles, you can fit in a couple of Fireknifes, Burning Eyes, Helios, or Deathrains, giving out more and better firepower, for the same or less amount of points. It's a good idea, but I don't think Pathfinders, or Tau for that matter, are suitable for static heavy weapon squads.
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 16:44   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Behemoth
Thing is that with Rail Rifles, you can fit in a couple of Fireknifes, Burning Eyes, Helios, or Deathrains, giving out more and better firepower, for the same or less amount of points. It's a good idea, but I don't think Pathfinders, or Tau for that matter, are suitable for static heavy weapon squads.
The thing is I cant really think of another use for Pathfinders, the way they are designed they are a Heavy weapons squad, evan with out the rail rifles. Rail rifles themselves aren't that pricey. They aren't really a fast attack unit. For mobile attack, a squad of fire warriors using fish of furry and rapid firing pulse rifles are better.
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 16:54   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardrain
The thing is I cant really think of another use for Pathfinders, the way they are designed they are a Heavy weapons squad, evan with out the rail rifles. Rail rifles themselves aren't that pricey. They aren't really a fast attack unit. For mobile attack, a squad of fire warriors using fish of furry and rapid firing pulse rifles are better.
Heya Hardrain

Don't get so caught up in their apparent uses (ie: markerlights, seekers, etc). Here's some thoughts for another way to think about them:

Alternative Pathfinder Use

But really, don't get caught up in the idea that they must be used in this way. They're still a unit that is always fielded (scouts), gets a free move and can separate up (the Fish can be up to 24 inches forward if you go first) and the Pathfinders themselves can already have moved 12 inches into cover or something, or dropped off on an objective. It's quite useful having a mechanized mobile team on the board no matter what. Also, they're no more expensive than 8 fire warriors in a devilfish, which isn't so uncommon to take, with only markerlights and carbines instead. This gives you more options to take more Kroot units (like lots and lots of 12 man teams for example). You can do quite a few things with Pathfinders that don't require rail rifles, markerlights, seekers etc. Just try using them in other ways.

Just another note:

Think of this.... 8 Firewarriors; Shas'ui; Devilfish; Decoy Launchers (175 points). They start on the board, but if you don't get first turn, you could lose the Fish. On the other hand, 8 Pathfinders; Shas'ui; Devilfish; Decoy Launchers (191 points; 16 points more). They start on the board always, and get that free move before the game starts, so you can quickly get into a place that you're less likely to be shot at from, that wasn't in your deployment zone perhaps. Pretty useful for avoiding a first turn loss of skimmers, for example. And unless you're using rapidfire pulse rifles, there isn't a large loss of damage output, if you're using them to secure and capture objectives, which is what mechanized groups are pretty useful for doing in the first place.

Anyhow, for some more information on Pathfinders in general:

Pathfinders (General Use in 4th)
Seeker Missiles (Seeker Salvo; Uses)

Cheers!
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 19:17   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

I presonly hate seeker missles because for 40 points i can take out 38 points of marines but i need to spend 191 + seeker missles over 6 turns thats a bonus of 2 points a turn for the seeker missles but it would take 52 turns for the unit to balance out for the price of the pathfinders with out the devil fish


but rail rifles if you have two you target a squad of marines then take out 1 with the squad and use hammerheads to blow the rest out of the game
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 19:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

MalVeauX

Those are excellent writeups. Basicly Tactica pathfinders in two post. It will take a bit to read and digest them! Thanks
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 20:01   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaderhader
I presonly hate seeker missles because for 40 points i can take out 38 points of marines but i need to spend 191 + seeker missles over 6 turns thats a bonus of 2 points a turn for the seeker missles but it would take 52 turns for the unit to balance out for the price of the pathfinders with out the devil fish


but rail rifles if you have two you target a squad of marines then take out 1 with the squad and use hammerheads to blow the rest out of the game
I'm not quite sure I understand your math (8 pathfinders and a DF are only 175). However, consider this:

- If my pathfinders fire 7 seeker missiles at a squadron of necron destroyers 6 should hit and 5 should wound no armour or cover saves. With marines they instant kill. That is enough to kill all of the destroyers. Now if the necron player does not have any other destroyers around then there are no WWB rolls to deal with.
-If the pathfinders are forward deployed you start getting rear shots on tanks with STR 8.
-for 15 pts (leader & ML) Regular FW can also use them, not just path finders.
-The DF or HH they are on can move at maximum speed any where on the table and you can still fire them
-A pathfinder leader or Shas'ui with TL can get a STR 8 ap 3 shot at a unit/vechile with out having to risk the gets hot problem that rail rifle TL's suffer from.

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Old 22 Oct 2005, 20:04   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardrain
MalVeauX

Those are excellent writeups. Basicly Tactica pathfinders in two post. It will take a bit to read and digest them! Thanks
No problem man

Pathfinders are probably the 2nd least used or favored unit in our Codex, yet they're an essential unit in terms of fluff and composition. They do a lot of things the rest of the army cannot be bothered with and most people write them off due to price and function. The least unit falls to the Kroot Ox just for reference.

Anyhow; Pathfinders make a strong return in 4th, where they're quite useful again. They can do a lot of helpful things for your army based on your opponent, so they're not something to just write off. Their place on the force organizational chart can open up a lot more possibilities in your Troops too, so they're quite useful from many view points.

No sense in just saying "terrible" and then applying a minimum point game in which they can be fielded. They're useful from combat patrol up, contrary to what people say. And of course, everything is always based on opinion, and math-hammer will not show you anything useful with them because this is a unit that requires cunning or at least a little planning to use well. They're not something that a statistic will just show the flaw or superiority of.

Try them out in many ways - you may find yourself enamored with them

Cheers!
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 21:37   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX

Try them out in many ways - you may find yourself enamored with them
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Old 22 Oct 2005, 22:49   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pathfinders - Mech Hvy Wpns team

If markerlights are going to do what the rumors say they will in Tau Empire, everybody's gonna want to run at least a squad of them in sizable games. Also, don't neglect their ability to pin down non-marine units with those pulse carbines.
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