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All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 00:23   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

This post was orginally going to be a long post with a bunch of questions. But many of my questions have been answered, via the search engine which people seem to vehemently suggest using. I've read the thread on pulse-rifles vs pulse carbines and decided on all pulse rifles for my fire warriors. I've read about the gun drones and am pretty sure I will take a full unit of these to stick near the FW and take damage and attempt to pin things while popping in and out. I've read up on Kroot and their tactics. (meat shield, CC specialist...or for me support against Space Marines when they get too close or maybe taking down Imperial Guard from within cover).

Though you may all indeed comment on the above strategies, my main query comes down to my crisis suits. I will be facing space marines, chaos space marines, witch hunters, and a daemon hunters army (imperial guard heavy). I have three crisis suits and I want to use them to full effect. I have basically ruled out putting them in the same unit (Sahs'o + two body guards = loss of IC status and high risk of 25% casualties test) Though the thought did cross my mind about taking 3 drone controllers and having the HQ, 2 body guards, and 6 gun drones. I've read the post on drones and armour saves and tougness (ok, I read it three times...but I think I get it now); but is putting all of my eggs into one basket a dangerous idea? And if I did this, I would also lose my idea for a unit of gun drones since a majority of them would be with my HQ and body guards.
The most rational idea right now seems to be to break up my three crisis suits and use them to harass the approaching enemy. Basically take fire knife (MP and PF) on all three suits and see what happens. To be more exact. Shas'o :MP, PR, Multi-tracker (hard wired) and either twin-link the PR/MP or take the shield generator. Now if I could take the other two crisis suits and make them team leaders and basically give them the same fire knife set up...either TW one of the guns or taking a shield generator.
So it comes down to taking one huge unit with HQ, body guards, and 6 drones...or three seperate units. Then the question of whether to twin-wink the plasma rifle or missile pod....or twin-link neither and take a shield generator. Plus the added question of whether I am over-doing it and should not bother with twin-linking or shields.

Alright if this all seems really vague and un-clear...please let me know and I will attempt to clarify. The information I gather from here will make its way into an army list; which you can again pick apart.

Thanks for all of your help.
Smitty
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 00:41   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

DONT GLUE THEM IN!!!

You want to be able to swich them around. Even better, magnets. Swichability lets you try new things.
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 00:59   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

Too true...too true; perhaps I shall invest in the mini-magnets of joy and happiness. (I think I know a store around me that sells them). Regardless, with my present quandry do you have any suggestions?
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 01:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

THE 2 best anti-space marine suits in the game;
twin plasma
plasma burst

Twin plasma is better at ranges greater than 18" and in rapid fire. Plasma burst is best at ranges of 12-18", but not quite as powerful in rapid fire as twin plasma.
Twin plasma also opens up the possibilities of the third harpoint; shield, flamers, drones, target locks, etc.

Deathrains are twin linked missile pods and are great against rhinos and turbo bikes (toughness 5, invulnerable saves)

Those are the three best suits right there. Also, be sure to use the search function at the bottom of the page for previous topics like this one.
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 01:22   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Though you may all indeed comment on the above strategies, my main query comes down to my crisis suits. I will be facing space marines, chaos space marines, witch hunters, and a daemon hunters army (imperial guard heavy). I have three crisis suits and I want to use them to full effect. I have basically ruled out putting them in the same unit (Sahs'o + two body guards = loss of IC status and high risk of 25% casualties test) Though the thought did cross my mind about taking 3 drone controllers and having the HQ, 2 body guards, and 6 gun drones. I've read the post on drones and armour saves and tougness (ok, I read it three times...but I think I get it now); but is putting all of my eggs into one basket a dangerous idea? And if I did this, I would also lose my idea for a unit of gun drones since a majority of them would be with my HQ and body guards.
The most rational idea right now seems to be to break up my three crisis suits and use them to harass the approaching enemy. Basically take fire knife (MP and PF) on all three suits and see what happens. To be more exact. Shas'o :MP, PR, Multi-tracker (hard wired) and either twin-link the PR/MP or take the shield generator. Now if I could take the other two crisis suits and make them team leaders and basically give them the same fire knife set up...either TW one of the guns or taking a shield generator.
So it comes down to taking one huge unit with HQ, body guards, and 6 drones...or three seperate units. Then the question of whether to twin-wink the plasma rifle or missile pod....or twin-link neither and take a shield generator. Plus the added question of whether I am over-doing it and should not bother with twin-linking or shields.
Heya Smitty

Here's a few links from the Important Topics sticky, that may relate to your question:

Crisis Configurations (vs. specific enemies and types)
Commander Crisis Configurations (groups, spelled out)

Really though, it comes down to one thing:

The suit should reflect what you need it to do. When you have few suits, I would almost always tell you to go twin-linked, because three suits, with multiple weapons and no twin-linking will not be able to dish out much damage, for a much higher price. The Tau have an easy array of S5 weaponry, so perhaps you should target that S6 to S8 zone with your suits to build up that middle strength in your army (it's quite important actually), since we have so much S5, and so little of everything else.

Definitely get some magnets. You will want to change up often at least to try things.

Finally; If all you have is 3 suits, unless you already filled your Elites with XV15 Stealthsuits, then keep those suits away from the HQ slots. It's good to have a single Commander, but those other suits will do no good as Shas'vre or bodyguards, etc. Instead, take them as single suits in the Elites. Such as HQ1 Commander Shas'El - Xv8 Crisis, Elite 1 - Xv8 Crisis, Elite 2 - Xv8 Crisis. Guard your points. You don't want to field things at higher point values, just to fill points. This will lose you the game very quickly because the difference between 500 and 1,000 points depending on your models will result in a crushing problem.

Remember to simply take what you need most; take it well; and leave all the extras in the armory. Splurge on things in larger point games, where it's ok to do that.

Anyhow, we've had a number of threads just on this matter, concerning Crisis Suits lately, so here's one so you can see what was said, just recently:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=12575.0

Cheers!
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 01:29   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

I think a little will depend on what sized games you plan on playing. *My gut feeling at first is to tell you to use two suits as shas'els with twin-linked plasma guns, a fusion blaster or missile pod on the third hardpoint, and hardwire the multitracker. *I think the shield generator is a poor investment on the HQ suits (well, all suits, but HQ especially) as IC status and terrain should suffice 95% of the time.

An independent team leader or two, armed the same, wouldn't be bad. *The problem is, without the IC status, they'll be stuck to a piece of terrain for safety, so the missile pod may be more useful to ensure you always get to shoot....unless you're sure the enemy will charge you. *Then the fusion may be applicable.

The only other consideration, as I mentioned earlier, is your list size (points). *Two shas'els armed as I recommend comne to almost 200 points, and they aren't scoring units. *If you're playing smaller sized games, you might only want to take one, and make the others team leaders to increase your number of scoring units.

Speaking of which, have you thought about picking up stealth suits.....

I don't think you'll be as pleased with your gun drones as you think, especially using them in the role you are contemplating. *Hopefully you'll prove me wrong, but I don't think so. *Of course, if you're just starting, you might not have enough models to flesh out your list....

Drone squads aren't bad, there are just better options out there to spend those points on.
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 03:20   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

When fighting SM in a larger battle, be sure to bring a Helios Shas'o (Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker). This way you are able to engage Termies, all normal SM and tanks (though dangerous) rather confidently. Trust me, 5-10 2+ saves isn't nice, especially when Drop Podded behind your big old Heavy Support.
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 08:54   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaldun
THE 2 best anti-space marine suits in the game;
twin plasma
plasma burst

Twin plasma is better at ranges greater than 18" and in rapid fire.* Plasma burst is best at ranges of 12-18", but not quite as powerful in rapid fire as twin plasma.
Twin plasma also opens up the possibilities of the third harpoint; shield, flamers, drones, target locks, etc.

Deathrains are twin linked missile pods and are great against rhinos and turbo bikes (toughness 5, invulnerable saves)

Those are the three best suits right there.* Also, be sure to use the search function at the bottom of the page for previous topics like this one.* *
I disagree almost 100%. Plasma/burst is an interesting combo, I haven't considered that one before, it could be interesting, and it's defintely better than pod/burst.

As for Burning Eye (TL plasma, one slot to fill), it's inferior to Helios (Plasma, Fusion, Multitracker), except at 13-24"...where neither suit is worth a damn. A slightly better than even chance to kill one space marine? That doesn't justify the expense at all! For the Burning Eye to be worthwhile, it has to get into rapid-fire range...where the Helios owns the battlefield. While both suits will average 1.5 hits per turn at this range, the Helios has 3 shots versus the Burning Eye's 2. The helios has the ability to kill AV14 tanks in a pinch (this should never be your primary armor killing unit, only an emergency backup!), which the Burning Eye lacks.

I'm not a fan of Deathrain (TL MP) suits. Their best use seems to be defeating AV11. Not too much of that where I play, but YMMV. AV12 and higher belongs in the capable hands of railguns (seekers work well for AV12, but many people don't use them). AV10 is ridiculously easy for stealth suits, and even fire warriors. I'd only consider deathrains if you expect several AV11 vehicles. And even then, only if you don't use seeker missiles (which I do, 30 points invested pretty much ensures the destruction of a dreadnaught, 20 might suffice for a rhino or razorback).

Anyway, for the armies you face, I recommend Helios suits, one HQ suit and two monat elites suits. Don't take two suits in the same elites slot, if you lose one, you're taking AOYO checks. Take 3 or take 1. In this case, if you have one already dedicated to HQ duties, put the other two in separate elites slots. If you can afford another suit, buy one, a full set of helios suits inside 12" wreaks havoc on marines. Any suit on its own produces lukewarm results most of the time. If you can't purchase that 4th suit, put the two elite suits in separate slots for morale purposes, but use them together (it's like getting a free target lock, anyway ;D)
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 15:31   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

the mistake a lot of people make with regard to tau suits is the assumption that they are "the" attacking unit of the tau.

I totally disagree with this mentality.

I look at the tau list, and see the troops and heavy support as backbone and armoured fist of the tau force. All elite, HQ and fast attack choices exist to support these two.

Crisis suits are definately useful. I have played a lot with them in my games. In general, i give my suits a role to fulfill and kit them out accordingly. As such, the best loadouts in my opinion are as follows:

Deathrain pattern.
twin missile pods and preferably a flamer. essentially this guy sits back at pops off his shots at close to max range. his targets are light to medium vehicles primarily, and light troops as a secondary targets. i use him to shoot up anything from raiders, to rhinos and dreadnoughts. I take the flamer as it is useful, for example at hosing down a particularly annoying mob of orks. it serves better than a target lock for 3rd hardpoint(which does sweet FA)

Burning eye
twin plasmas, plus flamer. the "marine" killer. this guy exists solely to kill 2+ and 3+ save models. his primary targets would be the likes of destroyers, bikers, raptors, crisis suits etc. he also doubles as a light vehicle killer as he can take on raiders, sentinels, or even rhinos with a small bit of luck. he has to get in close to do his job. Dont think the following "oh, its worthless, as all he'll be doing is killing 15pt marines". bull. he can kill a 50pt marine with a lascannon just as easily. target the most important units for your friend to take out.

Fireknife 6
twin linked plasmas, missile pod.
i took 3 suits with this config against a black templar army recently. read the battle report. they caused chaos. they combine the best elements of burning eye, with a smattering of deathrain thrown in. admittedly my rolls were better than average in the game, but i came away profoundly impressed with this loadout for elite crisis suits. they can reliably take on heavy infantry, and still pack a potent punch against medium armour with their high rate of fire missile pods.

Fireknife 7
twin linked missile pods, plasma rifle. similar to fireknife 6, except the priority of target switches from (1)heavy infantry and (2)armour to (1)armour and (2)heavy infantry.

I will saythis to you too. don't think about specific loadouts for specific armies. that is a bad way to play. think across the board, and think of an effective role that you want your suit to perform in. deathrain is as lethal against eldar vehicles as it is against marine vehicles, for example. burning eye is useful against even non heavy infantry armour as it can still target light vehicles, as so forth.

so, to conclude, think of the role you want in general, not against a particular foe.

Fireknife 7
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Old 21 Oct 2005, 17:19   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: All I have is the Battleforce...what to do with the 3 Crisis Suits?

If anyone hasn't read it, you should check out the thread on why you shouldn't use fireknives. http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=11198.0

Essentially, elite suits MUST be twinlinked. They are just too unreliable otherwise. Fireknife is effective on commanders with higher BS, but not elite suits.

Also, plasma should not be used to kill marines. It is too expensive on crisis suits to pop 15 point, 3+ save marines. Plasma should only be used to kill things with 2+ saves, and is to be fired on 3+ saves when there are no 2+ saves around. Point for point, pulse fire is actually slightly better at killing marines - unless you put it on a crisis suit, where you pay 50 points minimum for 3 pulse shots.
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