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Shaper confusion
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:05   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Shaper confusion

I hope I don't break any rules here but I'm trying to figure out what a Kroot Shaper is worth if he has the +1 armor adjustment bonus. Does this mean each model pays 1 point for a +6 save?

thanks!
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:08   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

Yes, each kroot warrior that accompaines him has to pay 1 point extra for a 6+ save. They get ld 8 too. This is in addition to the shaper's cost, however, and the shaper effectively REPLACES a kroot warrior. Just like a shas'ui does.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:12   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

With the Shaper you CAN chose to upgrade their armor which gives them a better leadership score but you dont have to. You could just use the shaper for his skills, which are prety formidable. But the armor is worthless, you better be keeping the kroot in cover, woods if available, kroot in the open are corpses.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:19   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

The armor save is worth it in close combat, ask any Ork player. Really though, paying +1 point per model is worth it for the leadership 8, in my opinion. Though in large units it gets a bit expensive. But then again if you use Kroot Hounds, who get the upgrade for free, it balances out fairly well.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 19:20   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

Assuming a unit of 14 Kroot, adding a Shaper costs the same as adding 5 more basic Kroot to the unit - it's not even remotely worth the points, except in the Kroot Merc list, where you have no choice.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 20:02   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

Four basic Kroot:
A Shaper costs 28 points
28/7=4
So a Shaper costs as much as 4 basic Kroot.

And I personaly pay the points for the better Leadership.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 21:00   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

So for a squad of 20 Kroot with one Shaper (with a Pulse Rifle and the armor save bonus for his squad) PLUS 6 Kroot Hounds the final tally is a whopping 221 points?
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Old 19 Oct 2005, 03:05   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

Yup. WAY too much for its purpose as a cheap counter-assault/assault/annoyance unit IMHO.
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Old 19 Oct 2005, 03:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

you can technically have 20 hounds, if you have the fast attack slots ... then i think the save would be worth it ... imagine 20 kroot and 20 hounds all in one squad .. lol .. that would be a massacre to just about anyone, and a rather inexpensive 305 points ... not likely you'd wana use up all those fast attack slots though ... i usually don't use a shaper because he just costs too much and you have no chance to make sweeping advances, which sucks ... if i were playing a larger scale game, however, and didn't have alot of fast attack in my army, i would definately consider the 40 man squad with a shaper .. like shir'rin said, the hounds get a free save if the squad has the save ... so that would be more than balanced in a unit that size ... half a point per model for a save and increased leadership is a better deal than you're likely to find anywhere else
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Old 19 Oct 2005, 03:56   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shaper confusion

Yup. The shaper has a pretty good statline for a tau unit, and if you attach kroothounds, then yeah, it'd be worth it. Don't swap for the Pulse Rifle, though. Kroot Rifles count as a CC weapon. 4 attacks from the shaper... thats...(counts on fingers)...OMG...that's an upwards of 64+ attacks, not counting the 'Release the hounds' rule...(calculated w/19kroot,20kroothounds, 1shaper). It really is a shame that I can't sweeping advance with a shaper... and you can have up to 30 hounds. Each thingy has a max of 10 hounds/choice. I'm gonna be glad when the new codex comes out next year, making the hounds/krootox squad upgrades... maybe.
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