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Skimmers and LOS
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 03:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Skimmers and LOS

I was under the impression that Skimmers can see over al terrain if they so choose, I was called on it today and I couldn't find it in the rule book. Am I imagining this ability or not? A page reference would be greatly apreciated.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 03:56   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

I cannot find it specificly but yea I think your right. My hobby store knows this rule or at least does it. Just tell your opponent that sure you may shoot them, but everything he has can now shoot you. 40k doesnt really recognize height so a skimmer floating up in the air suddenly isnt behind anything and can shoot anything but everything can shoot back. A fair trade off I would say. Ill keep looking.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 04:07   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

IIRC it is covered in the rulebook. Though I don't have mine with me (at school) and not sure which section it is. Something about them being Size 3 Models, and so being able to see over terrain (possibly mentioned in the section about skimmers hovering over other terrain? or am I getting them confused).
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 04:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

This is one of the least understood rules in the entire game IMO. And as a Tau player, it behooves us to understand it properly.

Skimmers use LoS rules like any other vehicle. You draw model's eye view from your tank to it's target. The ONLY exception to these rules is the following sentence on p.61.

Skimmers are capable of making a powered boost to gain height and cross obstacles. As such, skimmers ignore terrain altogether when they move and can even end their move hovering over difficult or impassable terrain (but not over other models). Conversely, mobile skimmers never count obscured target benefits from terrain they are hovering over, instead relying on speed for their protection.

Therefore, a skimmer behind size 3 area terrain cannot see over it. A skimmer behind a house cannot see over it. Model's eye view is used to determine LoS exactly like all other vehicles. The only exception is if the skimmer decides to move into the size 3 area terrain or onto the house, it would now count as hovering over the obstacle at which point it could see over/through it, but could no longer count obscurement benefits from it.

Note the paragraph on p.21 that says:

A model's line of sight will be considerably improved by being on an elevated position, such as a cliff or building, so it can count the height of the terrain piece it stands on for line of sight in regards to other Area Terrain.

This implies that if your skimmer is hovering over a piece of size 3 area terrain, you add +3 to the height classification of your model (since you're on top of size 3 terrain), meaning your skimmer is now at height level 6. Therefore, if ANOTHER piece of size 3 area terrain was between you and your target, you could now see over it, since you are height 6, and can see over size 3 terrain.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 04:17   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

Ah but do you have to be sitting on the terrain?

"Skimmers are capable of making a powered boost to gain height and cross obstacles."

It says to gain height AND cross obstacles. It does not say to, which would imply that it has to be going over an obstacle. Taken literally I think this would mean that you can declare your skimmer has boosted into the air. Its a sketchy call but a call nonetheless.

Alternatively the boost can also imply that it happens all in the movement and the skimmer settles back down at the end of the movement phase.

Perhaps its time to call GW and get an official ruling.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 04:35   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

This all relates back to my opinion that 3D elements in 40K are very poorly documented.

I would make this concession: The Skimmer can boost, making it height 3, with the understanding that anything smaller can draw LOS, provided that there is nothing Size 3 in the way.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 04:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

Skimmers count exactly like a regular tank for the purposes of being seen and seing other things. However, they can fly over terrain (not the open, they aren't high powered enough to gain height above the ground for long) and if they end their move over it, they count as being their lvl + whatever lvl they're on.

Skimmers also do not block LOS through themselves, that is enemies and friendlies can both fire through a skimmer with no penalty. Ld checks apply as normal.

Tonka was spot on.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 07:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

landed skimmers can take cover but are volnerable other then that the only thing that blocks line of sight for them or helps them not get shot at is forest.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 07:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by [ maCe
link=topic=12729.msg207167#msg207167 date=1129604870]
IIRC it is covered in the rulebook. Though I don't have mine with me (at school) and not sure which section it is. Something about them being Size 3 Models, and so being able to see over terrain (possibly mentioned in the section about skimmers hovering over other terrain? or am I getting them confused).
Ok, I had a look. Page 7 of the BFM Rulebook - Tanks are Size 3. And so the normal rules apply for LOS taking into account the size of the firing model, the size of the target, and the size of any intervening terrain.

Ditto to what T0nka said.
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Old 18 Oct 2005, 07:48   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Skimmers and LOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0nkaTruckDriver


A model's line of sight will be considerably improved by being on an elevated position, such as a cliff or building, so it can count the height of the terrain piece it stands on for line of sight in regards to other Area Terrain.

This implies that if your skimmer is hovering over a piece of size 3 area terrain, you add +3 to the height classification of your model (since you're on top of size 3 terrain), meaning your skimmer is now at height level 6. Therefore, if ANOTHER piece of size 3 area terrain was between you and your target, you could now see over it, since you are height 6, and can see over size 3 terrain.
Tonka- are you sure the rule means to double the size of the area terrain you are on ? It says " you can count the height of the terrain piece it stands on " .On 1st glance I would read this to mean just the terrain size, not the terrain size x 2. Yes the skimmer is hovering above it but at what altitude? It is an ambiguously worded rule, but how do you see the size 3 becomes size 6?

please explain ???
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