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Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)
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Old 13 Oct 2005, 09:44   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

Hi all...
I i'm playing a local warhammer league and i have to fight the iperial guard the next day... I already know its army....

DOCTRINES
Light infanttry
Drop troops
Veterans
Iron discipline
Rough Riders

LIST

COMMAND PLATOON:
3 Command squad \w light infantry
1 Junior officer
1 Veteran \w Standard Bearer
6 Fire support squad \w 3 Heavy Bloter

5 Hardened veterans \w 3 Lasgun, vet.serg.
5 Hardened veterans \w 3 Plasma gun, vet.serg.
5 Hardened veterans \w 3 Plasma gun, vet.serg., Drop trooper

1 Sentinel \w Autocannon, Drop trooper

6 Rough Riders \w vet. serg.

INFANTRY PLATOON
5 command squad \w autocannon
10 infantry \w lascannon, light infantry
10 infantry \w lascannon, light infantry

INFANTRY PLATOON
5 command squad \w 1 lasgun, 3 plasmagun, Drop trooper
10 infantry \w lascannon, light infantry
10 infantry \w lascannon, light infantry
10 infantry \w lascannon, light infantry

1 Basilisk
1 Basilisk
1 Leman Russ \w hull H.bolter, Sponsons H.bolter, extra armour


Now here's MY list

Shas'o Fireknife
Shas'el Fireknife
2 Crisis fireknife
6 Stealth team
6 Stealth team
6 FW
12 FW \w Devilfish (decoy, multitrack)
12 kroot + 4 hound
7 Gun drones
1 RailHead \w Decoy, MT, TL
1 RailHead \w Decoy, MT, TL


Now...i could hide & fire agaist all those special weapon (not those deep striking) but i can't hide agaist basilisks...and i have to wait for my Deep strike units to come down before destroying it.

My question is...How many units should i send in Deep strike?
Deep strike can save them from blew up in the 1st/2nd turn but it's a risky manouver...
How many DS units should i use?
And how can i rip out basilisk before they blew up my entire army?
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Old 13 Oct 2005, 09:57   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

Considering the deployment, by the time he has deployed his basilisks, you should have deployed both hammerheads and possibly 1 troop.
Try to get him to deploy both basilisks in same place. (by trying to get LOS to other covered areas he has in his deployment side.)

Once the game starts, try to move as many of your units within 36" of both basilisks as possibly (preferrably behind cover) If this is not possible, concentrate destroying one basilisk, and moving other units within36" of the other. Since 36" is the minimum range of the indirect fire, you should be safe. then. I personally suggest infiltrating (if mission allows) both stealths and kroot to get then within 36" to begin with. Commanders should be safe, as IC:s can only be shot if they are closest character within LOS, so they donīt have to fear basilisks so much. Drones might be a good unit to DS, people easily underestimate the power of gundrones.

Remember that you can use Hammerhead SMS, or detached Devilfish drones to harass the basilisks sides and rear. If possible, try to angle him out of cover and kill basilisk with missile pods.

These are just general info/opinions, I hope they help.



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Old 13 Oct 2005, 13:56   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

I would not deepstrike suits to go after the basilisks. As you pointed out, that can't happen till turn 2 and isn't likely till turn 3.

on top of that, his bassies will be backed against the board edge, raising the risk of "lost in the warp"

I would deepstrike the drones. losing them isn't catastrophic, and 7 shots should give some success against side armor.

Go after them with the stealths. 18 S5 shots will certainly yield results. If the hammerheads take out the russ on turn 1, go for a basilisk on turn 2.

Actually your assessment of his army is accurate, with his lascannons spread out amongst line squads, the only real threat that he presents to you is those ordnance templates. 5 total lascannons that will rarely all have LOS to a hammerhead are not much of a threat, so the 'heads can go where they please when they please, and should be able to pop the basilisks in short order. His non-deepstriking troops are no threat, so forget the submunitions early on and take out his tanks! Once he loses his ordnance weapons, it's nothing but mop-up time.
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Old 13 Oct 2005, 14:44   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

i've taken out 2 leman russes and a basilisk in a single turn of shooting.

rails at the leman russ. missile pods at the basilisk. manoevre so that as much of your list as possible is behind cover, or out of range of his lascannons.

beyond that, its infantry. use your stealth teams to take them on...
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Old 13 Oct 2005, 23:51   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

well, one simple way to handle the multiple Basilisks is to know them inside and out.

here's a little factoid Guard guys (maybe intentionally) keep secret/ignorant of: if a Basilisk fires indirectly (meaning hes out of sight).. its minimum range is 36"!

this means that once you get within 3 feet of them, they cant place a template on you any more. huh! bet that ones not shared often.... or remembered often.... or enforced often....

i guess i can leave the rest of that problem up to you.. the factoid is the really important part.
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Old 14 Oct 2005, 09:40   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

Actually, it has little to do with line of sight. If the 25 point upgrade for indirect fire is purchased, the minimum range is 36", regardless of whether you have line of sight to the target! You don't get to fire in both modes with the upgrade, you are stuck with high-angle fire. The only benefit that a 125 point basilisk gains from having line of sight to the target is rolling only one scatter die. Minimum range is still in effect! ...which is why I never take the upgrade. 25 points to handicap myself? No, thanks!
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Old 14 Oct 2005, 10:42   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

I guess I never thought of it that way, march10k, but it seems odd. I believe you get to choose what kind of shot you can make, but then again, I don't field 'lisks, so I haven't paid too much attention to problems concerning these. Personally, I go with 3 'russes, and it works out great. One demolisher to put on the charge, and 2 to back them up.

Concerning the thread itself, I'd say send in the drones, and do your level best to out-flank him with what-ever kind of battlesuit you can, as their all capable of taking down a 'lisk from the side. Remember, getting to the rear armour of a basilisk ain't necessary, as the side armour is equally weak.

Oh, and beware your crisis. If he's firing the 'lisks indirectly, you will want to have them within 36", unless you're some kinda gambler.


Hope I helped
~Olannon
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Old 14 Oct 2005, 11:03   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

Well, I always took a basilisk in 3rd edition, and made sure it was hull-down (couldn't count on two pieces of suitable terrain, or I'd have taken more, they ROCK!)

Now, in 4th, with hull down being nerfed into obscured, I am less willing to take one. I still do, sometimes, but more often replace it with a demolisher. two russes are pretty standard for me, too.

Once, I took a russ, a demolisher, and a lisk. That was unsporting, but it was against a chaos cheese-monger who needed a lesson taught to him about cheating with his 250 point lord. He had combined something about ignoring invulnerable saves with ignoring armor saves (some sort of illegal combination of mutually exclusive weapons, I think, this was years ago), and was applying feel no pain against lightning claws (I had brought my dark angels) the week before. I was pretty pissed when I read the chaos dex after that game. The lord ate three pie plates on turn one the following week, and his entire army was dead or making last man standing checks at the end of turn 2. That'll teach someone to bring maximum cheese, and then cheat on top of it!
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Old 14 Oct 2005, 11:17   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

Hmmm... In the first place, I intended to do oneof each heavy-support tank in the Ig codex. However, I fail to see how this is cheesy. 2 Russes and a lisk complements each other to great effect, but I wouldn't call it cheesy.

Cheesy IG? How about maxin out infantry and having 30 lascannons in 1.5k? Now, THAT my friend, is cheesy....

Oh, and that chaos lord sounded like cheat.life.com itself. Without having to look into the codex, I can tell there's at least 3 rules broken with that combo.

Still, concerning the subject, I think the easiest way to counter 'lisks is to infiltrate stealth suits, or, failing that, get close with your army and force him out in the open.

~Olannon
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Old 14 Oct 2005, 12:02   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Help Agaist guard (2 basilisk are too much!)

I wasn't saying it was cheesy, I was saying it wasn't exactly an even fight. And pairing a hull-down basilisk with a demolisher is pure meanness. Which one do you shoot at? In 4th edition, you obviously shoot the basilisk, as obscured is dubious protection, at best. But in 3rd? Ouch! Good luck killing either one, let alone both! But in 4th, the lisk is just too vulnerable. Also, with the "small hole in the center" rule for shooting vehicles with ordnace templates, lisks and demolishers are less powerful in 4th edition. In 3rd, when shooting at tanks, it made a HUGE difference whether you used a battlecannon, an earthshaker, or a demolisher. Against infantry, it's really not much of a difference, T4 and below (99% of infantry) are equally screwed by all of them. So, taking an earthshaker or demolisher instead of a battlecannon in 3rd edition was a real upgrade in capability. Not so much in 4th edition. Now, I see the lisk as being valuable for its low price, and the demolisher as a terror weapon. An S10 template doesn't need to be deadlier than an S8 template, it's plenty scary to justify the cost!

I agree, the stealths and the deepstriking drones can make short work of the basilisks. But the stealths will have to infiltrate extremely well to get a shot on turn 1, and the drones are going to arrive on the battlefield pretty late. I'd recommend shooting them with the hammerheads until something else gets into range. If you are able to engage with stealth suits on turn one, obviously shoot the russ with the 'heads. The basilisks are going to be most dangerous in the beginning, when you have the least chance of being inside the 36" bubble. Once your whole army is safe from them, it's almost not worth taking them out.

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