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Which is really better at killing marines?
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Old 11 Oct 2005, 01:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Which is really better at killing marines?

okay, I was just thinking about what to use against an army of space marines. I was conisdering the Ion cannon That Ap3 is nice against there armor saves, but is it really better than a railgun submuntion? Ion cannon gets three shots usually one or two of those are again miss usually just one though, for wounding there both usually gonna wound because they wound on 2 plus then you have three dead marines or what ever your shooting at with 3+ armor saves. okay lets look at the railgun submunition. It is most of the time gonna cover most of the squad, then for wounding against marines your gonna wound on 2+ too then they take there armor saves and usually they will fail at least on or two or even three depening how many you actually got on the tepmplate and wounded. The other thing is when your not using the railgun submuntion you can bust tanks like nothing. but what about the ion cannon? It can't really damage tanks that well strength seven isn't really that good, so basically i think the railgun is better becuase it is more versatile. What do you guys think?

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Old 11 Oct 2005, 01:30   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which is really better at killing marines?

Personally I prefer the Railgun. The Ion cannon can kill marines more reliably but I have rarely failed to cover a whole squad of marines, template shots can down just as many or more marines each turn than the Ion cannon, plus you have the added advantage of being able to bust whatever tanks you meet. Some would say the Ion cannon but I personally believe this to be a misconception. Ive regularly shot down 2 Grey Knights a turn with the Railgun, Ive seen Ion cannons kill 1 or none, massed amounts of wounds are more likely to cause kills than a few wounds that give no armor save.

Plus the Railgun is just as good against whatever its shooting at, even squads with invulnerable saves dont make a whole lot of differance as the gun is relying on number of wounds, not its ap value so a 4+ invulnerable save makes no differance where it would cut the effectiveness of the Ion Cannon even more. Lastly you can punch down a terminator a tun if need be, or nasty characters left singled out after their attatched squad is cut down in fire the Railgun can save its str 10 shot for last to kill those annoying multi wound models in a single shot. With the versatility to do what it needs and stay powerful in any situation makes the Rail Gun a much better choice for me.

The only reason I would take an Ion Cannon is if I was facing an army with a lot of skimmers like a Saim Hann Eldar List or Dark Eldar list. Otherwise Ill stick to solid slugs and submunitions.
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Old 11 Oct 2005, 01:35   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which is really better at killing marines?

You need 8 marines covered, statistically, to equal/better the Ion Cannon. That's after the railgun has already hit. If you mark, the IC is almost definitely better, since it also gets rid of the other variable that matters (cover saves.) Also you have to consider the psychological effect of denying a marine player his saves. I've heard stories of mass starcannon armies making marine players cry.

But, according to some calculations TonkaTruckDriver did, the best weapon with which to kill marines is... pulse fire. By just a few percent, zero point something-something, it is the most COST EFFECTIVE marine killing weapon in our list. That's because it is so cheap and so readily available. 30 points gets you 3 shots, 2 of which will wound.
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Old 11 Oct 2005, 01:42   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which is really better at killing marines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DireStrike
30 points gets you 3 shots, 2 of which will wound.
But then in rapid fire range thats 6 shots, 4 wounds. Even more cost effective at close range.

I can get 10 marines under the submunition most of the time, the Submunition is especially good when pesky units deep strike in when they are nice and clumped together.
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Old 11 Oct 2005, 01:54   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which is really better at killing marines?

hmm... so fw's are the best choice for shooting marines offensively...

Of course, the hh is going to take more abuse than the fw's, and is faster. Depends on the situation, really, but it's good to keep in mind. If you take un-upgraded kroot in forest or 4+ cover, however, the kroot actually kill faster with shooting, per point, than the fw's by a good margin. 7 fw's kill .78 marines and 10 kroot kill .83 marines per turn. The kroot will also be difficult to dislodge; their cheap cost is frustrating; should your opponent kill them all, he will still have only eliminated a fraction of your army, and probably gone to a good deal of effort to do so.

Ionheads against marines are best used to take down bikes, rhinos, land speeders, and especially jetpack equipped troops, who can sometimes hide and negate your shooting. The railhead is better against heavy armor, like predators and land raiders, but cannot match the ioncannon under most circumstances, because space marine players aren't going to bunch up so you can get upwards of 8 models under the template.
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Old 11 Oct 2005, 02:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which is really better at killing marines?

I forgot about Kroot, I don't remember if TTD included them in his calculations. Of course they are a lot less survivable and don't have quite the range of FWs, but still have good range and infiltration to get in cover.
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