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Old 06 Oct 2005, 04:32   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Rules Questions

These are rather general rules, but Tau players may have come across them.

1) Can you be forced to shoot at something that you can't damage? Example: Marine squad with all bolters fails leadership, and the front of a devilfish is the closest target.

2) What are the deployment rules for troops with dedicated transport? Can you deploy in or out, and when must you specify which? Does the transport have to be in coherency?

3) Can you penetrate a skimmer in close combat?
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 04:38   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

The answer for number 3 is most certainly no. I've had to fend off attacks of every kind vs the skimmers "glancing only" rule, which is appropriatly named. You cannot POSSIBLY penetrate a skimmer that's moved over 6" in a turn.

What about the transport rules, for number 2? I know the transport doesn't have to be in coherency at the start of a turn you embark, and that models can run towards the devilfish before embarking. If they end their move 2" away from the fish, they jump on. Then the fish can move however much movement it has left, but cannot disembark the fw's in the same turn.

I'm not really sure about number 1. I've looked at the rules for that a lot too, but come to no conclusions.
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 05:33   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DireStrike
These are rather general rules, but Tau players may have come across them.

1) Can you be forced to shoot at something that you can't damage? Example: Marine squad with all bolters fails leadership, and the front of a devilfish is the closest target.

2) What are the deployment rules for troops with dedicated transport? Can you deploy in or out, and when must you specify which? Does the transport have to be in coherency?

3) Can you penetrate a skimmer in close combat?
1. Yes. The rulebook is very specific about what constitutes a "unit", and the target priority use that term. It represents the fact that units may panic and fire at an oncoming vehicle even if they have no hope of damaging it.

3. This one is a little debateable, since the auto-glance rule is in the shooting section rather than the assault section. Interpreted literally, though, a skimmer that has moved over 6" may never be penetrated in any phase.

2. You do not need to deploy a unit in or anywhere near its dedicated transport. See page 81 of the 4th edition rulebook.
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 15:02   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

as answered by the rules boi's at GW you can not penetrate a skimmer that has moved more then 6". Take that with as much trust of thier rules knowledge as you will ;D
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 16:07   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Yes, I already called the rules boiz about that one and they guy said you CAN penetrate a skimmer in CC. :

I'm not even going to bother calling them anymore. Which is why I asked the questions here. ;D
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 16:50   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Skimmers do not automatically get glancing hits in the assault phase rather than penetrating. you can penetrate it. On page 71:

Assault attacks are as normal (2", in contact, +1 assault).
To score hits on vehicles moving more than 6" is 6+.
Skimmers, unless landed, are considered moving over 6".

that's it.

So an ork with powerclaw can penetrate a skimmer, but most infantry would have difficulty with st4 and st5 weapons making a glance, much less a penetration.

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Old 06 Oct 2005, 17:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Interesting. Thanks Wanax! So a skimmer can only ever count as moving 6", not more, when you assault it.
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 21:05   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaso Wanax

Assault attacks are as normal (2", in contact, +1 assault).
To score hits on vehicles moving more than 6" is 6+.
Skimmers, unless landed, are considered moving over 6".

that's it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaldun
Interesting.* Thanks Wanax!* So a skimmer can only ever count as moving 6", not more, when you assault it.
Well, khaldun, did you read that post? He said above 6", not 6" exactly

Thing is, the skimmer will only be hit on a 6+, always, in an assault. Thus, it doesn't matter too much whether you can penetrate or not

question 1, direstrike: yes, they can be forced, it makes tanks more valuable, eg a demolisher in the front of an IG army might take several heavy bolters that would otherwise ruin your infantry. Represents panic etc.

question 2: deploy however you want agreed with kanaris.

question 3: well, I've given some reasons opposite, and the skimmer will be tough enough in cc, methinks, however, interpreting the rules on page 69, skimmers moving fast, it says nothing about shooting attacks only, and it's in the vehicle, not shooting, section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
3.* This one is a little debateable, since the auto-glance rule is in the shooting section rather than the assault section.* Interpreted literally, though, a skimmer that has moved over 6" may never be penetrated in any phase.
It's clearly in the vehicle, not shooting section, so would apply to all attacks, no matter what. Agreed with khaldun Although it's in the vehicle shooting section, it still affects a vehicle, and there's no text saying it is a rule against shooting attacks only. So, I think it works against what-ever kind of attack you've got

'You cannot POSSIBLY penetrate a skimmer that's moved over 6" in a turn.'
correct!

Hope I helped a bit

~Olannon
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 21:35   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olannon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaldun
Interesting.* Thanks Wanax!* So a skimmer can only ever count as moving 6", not more, when you assault it.
Well, khaldun, did you read that post? He said above 6", not 6" exactly
ummm, oops? :-\

Got to read more closely. That was my logical part of the brain kicking in for penetrating in CC.

But yeah, first they have to hit. Things like carnifexes, which only have a few attacks, aren't going to be a huge bother when they assault. A few powerfists could really ruin your day though.
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 22:19   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rules Questions

Where does it say models hit on a 6+ in assault against skimmers? I read the rulebook under Skimmers and it only stated the only Glancing Hits rule.
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