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Could a Broadside be a Sniper?
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Old 26 Feb 2015, 23:15   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Could a Broadside be a Sniper?

So hey, i've been looking at the stats of the XV-88-B along with the advanced targeting array for it. the advanced targeting array gives it PS, this along with the potential insta-gib properties of its rail rifle make it a possibly good unit to deal with ICs or squad leaders. it has a high enough BS, and along with its THR it has a very low miss chance. while not efficient (at wound stripping), it could be very effective. what are your thoughts?
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Old 27 Feb 2015, 02:25   #2 (permalink)
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interesting I must ponder this....
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Old 27 Feb 2015, 02:59   #3 (permalink)
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This concept got explored at length on the other Tau forum, ATT. And I always thought it was really neat, especially if you used the unbound list to make him an HQ (for that ability that prevents 'look out sir')... but that's a whole other thing.
The issue is of course that it's just not cost effective... kind of like the HRR broadside itself... but probably even worse because now you're not even firing at your optimal target (light vehicles), but instead shooting a single infantry model at a time, hopping for a 6. If it fails, you're looking at hitting a meatshield troop worth like 10 points. If it works, you have a chance at killing a heavy weapon, or a squad leader... so like 20 points. And if by that rare occurrence you you find a commander with T4 or less, no eternal warrior, and you get through his invulnerable save... then you could finally score some points. But how often is that going to actually happen?
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Old 28 Feb 2015, 05:42   #4 (permalink)
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Ok so I thought about it a little and while this may works your probability is only around 23% so it can be effective, but less than 50% of the time which in a war game is alot, but its like a fireworks show might do some fancyness may not.
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Old 28 Feb 2015, 17:44   #5 (permalink)
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Like I said, it's very neat and showy, and that one time it worked would be an awesome story... but let's look at the stats of a kill.
Just for fun, and because it's the codex sitting next to me let's say you were having one of those rare days where you're fighting Sisters of Battle:

So we have a fully tricked out Canoness in a unit of 10 sisters.
Each sister is 12 points.
And for the sake of argument lets go crazy and put the canoness at a very optimistic 200 points (that's 3 times her base cost in wargear! This lady would be tricked out! she'd have a 2+/4++ rerollable, eternal warrior, almost auto-pass psychology tests and regrouping, special guns and weapons, she'd be crazy! But despite this cost she won't be using any of those things in this analysis... she's being played really poorly).

So your 68 point broadside shoots at this unit.
1/6 of the time he gets a direct precision shot. 2/6 of the time he hits the unit. 3/6 of time time he misses, but of those misses, 1/6 of the rerolls get precision shot. 2/6 of them hit, and 3/6 of them miss once and for all. That's 25% precision shots, and 50% regular hits.

50% of the time, we wound everything on 2s, ignores armour, and factoring in a smart player deals with a (conservative) 5+ cover save, meaning our sniper has scored back 12 points 28% of the time.

But we want to look at that 25% of the time when he's going after that tasty 150 point model... sooooo... still wound everything on 2s... which brings us to 21% to wound.

Then assuming this sniper isn't your warlord getting the no look out sir trait, Look Out Sir for an independent character is a 2+, so now 17.5% of those shots also go onto the 12 point model with a 5+ cover save. 40% of the time the sniper has earned back 12 points. We're now at 3.5% success rate for sniping the character.

Ignores armour, but she does have a 4+ invulnerable save as you'd expect... That's now 1.7% success rate. That's before we even assume any special rules like eternal warrior or rerolling saves (both of which a canoness and many other similar enemies can have). 1.7% of the time we're getting 200 points for the shot the other 40% we're getting 12.

The result? Each turn this model is killing an average of 8.2 points... at 68 points it will take him 8-9 turns just to earn back his own point value.

Even optimistically assume he's your warlord and thus removes Look Out Sir from the enemy (which I think is soooo thematic and cool... but would probably only use in 1000 point and below fun story games), you still only get the kill on the canoness 10.5% of the time, so your average points per turn are about 25. This one actually isn't the worst in the world, and could be used to snipe out heavy weapons from a squad while it approached and then kill the character in it with a lucky shot every once in a while (about once every 2 games).

The point is, if you're not just doing it for the cool thematic idea of having a dug in city fighting sniper army, it probably isn't worth it.

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Old 04 Mar 2015, 21:13   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah i did the math too, cool idea but it could not work in an actual combat scenario. theoretically yes, experimentally no. mostly just a theory i had a while back. but all thing considering, has anyone actually tested it out in a game?
(PS, dont you think that a railgun should not be blocked by LOS? since the projectile is traveling at fraction of the speed of light after all. just fluffwise anyway.)
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Old 04 Mar 2015, 22:46   #7 (permalink)
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Actually right after this topic came out I used one as my warlord in a couple of fun 1000 point games with my friend who is just learning to play 40k. I had no expectations and was rewarded with a resounding show of nothing all that impressive. He killed a solid number of heavy weapons all things considered (I rolled like 3 sixes in 2 games, which is pretty good for my luck!).

The railgun aspect is incorporated into the AP1, no regular armour can resist something like that. However, cover saves actually account for not just the trees or rubble providing physical blocks from the bullets but also the obscuring of the target from view; it's much harder to kill something if you don't know exactly where it is exactly. That's why our stealth field generators keep our stealth suits safe; they don't block bullets, they just make it harder for the enemy to get a lock on us.
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Old 06 Mar 2015, 20:45   #8 (permalink)
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woops! by LOS i meant look out sir, not line of sight. silly me and abbreviations only i get. but yeah, i get the whole stealth thing. you think it would be a bit better for the tau and eldar. ah well.
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Old 06 Mar 2015, 21:08   #9 (permalink)
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My bad, I misinterpreted. Though LOSir really doesn't make sense for any gun after a certain point. I suppose it's just people seeing the weapon aimed at the commander and acting before the shot is actually fired.
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Old 06 Mar 2015, 23:25   #10 (permalink)
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but you would think that a railgun which can go through a tank and go out the other side; sucking everything not welded down out the other side would kill both models... but then again the same goes for essentially every other heavy weapon in the game... i guess its jut one of those rules that dosent make any sense with physics or common sense! XD but tis okay, we all have those moments. like for example when i though a eldar shuriken cannon had rending. silly pseudo-dyslexia.
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