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Shadowsun & bodyguards
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Old 18 Jan 2014, 11:41   #1 (permalink)
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Default Shadowsun & bodyguards

I'm wondering if this squad has merit-

Shadowsun,
Bodyguard with 2 fusions, Iridium,
Bodyguard with 2 fusions, PEN chip.

This loadout comes out at a pricey just under 300 points however it is majority T5, 4+ cover minimum and auto pass LOS with tank hunting fusion blasters. The only downside is not being able to fit a target lock on a suit however shadowsun's ability mitigates this somewhat. Is this at all viable or is it simply too much gear on a relatively fragile squad?
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Old 19 Jan 2014, 03:58   #2 (permalink)
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I love the idea, especially as I have run with shadowsun in almost every game for months. It looks tough and i love the subtle rule using here. Also its unique which stands for merit in and of itself. There are just a few flaws that my over cynicism can't help but see, and therefore will indulge in. Understand that this is meant as constructive criticism.

When are you ever going to need 6 fusion guns pointed at the same unit? If you want to take out a tank, 2 fusion piranhas backed up by pathfinders will be almost as effective for a fraction of the cost, choices and in a far more reliable way, given the 12" scout + 12/18" move. This is all assuming that your aim is to hunt vehicles.

Against virtually any other target, there are better, safer alternatives as well. Theoretically this could be an effective monsterous-creature rompa-stompa, but Sniper drones and skyrays do this in a far more effective and cheaper way too. Terminators as well would be killed twice as quickly with plasma rifles with no change in the points or result.

I understand that the lack of shield drones is for the T5 average, but in all honesty i'd be tempted to almost value the shield drones above that, but that is purely speculative and comes from an ingrained, hard earnt belief in shield drones.

To help articulate my argument the following is what I usually run for a ShadowSun Combo:

HQ
Shadowsun

Elite
CrisisSuit Squad: 3 Suits with plasma rifles and CDS, 2 Shield drones

Fast Attack
6 Pathfinders or 1 tetra

This is a fraction over the points of your list, however i feel maintains the strengths of yours on a more loose framework. Shadowsun sticks with the suits and they all do a similar thing to your list. I have been theorizing about moving shadowsun out of the unit in the movement phase and then jumping back in in the assault for the extra shot, however I am unsure whether this is legal.

Essentially my point is that I find 6 fusion blasters to be a waste on one target, although i would not deny that there are situational uses for them in at least half the games you play. In this way I find that plasma rifles provide a more flexible alternative.

Nonetheless I intend on play testing your idea, as new ideas are few and far between these days, and this is certainly an interesting one.
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Old 19 Jan 2014, 11:28   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
When are you ever going to need 6 fusion guns pointed at the same unit? If you want to take out a tank, 2 fusion piranhas backed up by pathfinders will be almost as effective for a fraction of the cost, choices and in a far more reliable way, given the 12" scout + 12/18" move. This is all assuming that your aim is to hunt vehicles.
Piranhas don't have Scout. You also only get 2 shots on a very fragile platform.

I personally took her last night in a squad with 3 Dual Plasma, Target Lock Crisis Suits. I'm thinking she might need Shield Drones for ablative wounds, though.
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Old 19 Jan 2014, 17:51   #4 (permalink)
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I've looked at it Emberkahn and because the crisis are bodyguards I can fit the Target locks on them as well as the special issue wargear. This makes the squad much more versatile. I was thinking that the unit could counter the super heavies that are making the rounds in my area. With Shadowsuns JSJ move they can hopefully get out of line of sight before retaliation. Obviously they also work well against MCs and heavy tanks too. I understand the criticism and have used the units that you've suggested before, I was just looking for a more original approach plus I think the unit would look pretty cool!
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Old 19 Jan 2014, 21:13   #5 (permalink)
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Fair enough; and i didn't realise bodyguard could take Signature systems seperately; I was assuming they were just like Crisis Shasui. Given this I believe that this would be a great unit, with the added versatility as you said. And I agree with you, the more original approach in almost all instances is more successful than the standard one.

@CoffeeGrunt: Thanks for pointing out about scout. Nonetheless they are still better at getting to the target. They are 2 shots for a third of the price. Backed up by markerlights they are almost as effective against "one" target as the unit above. If you are still doubtful, double the number of piranhas and it is more effective, for a lower cost. With regards to toughness, I disagree, only because I base the calculation differently. The Piranhas are 100 points and to destroy require some serious heavy weaponry which is not guaranteed to destroy it thanks to the cover save. Furthermore there is still a good chance, if you deploy well, that you will have destroyed your target before they die. Conversely shadowsuns unit is far more expensive, and although are undoubtedly a lot tougher, when out of cover will get sprayed by small arms fire. Out of cover they require 9 bolter hits per wound, which when i think about it is still alot, but nevertheless this is a more expensive unit.
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Old 19 Jan 2014, 21:43   #6 (permalink)
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My problem is that Crisis Suits can Deep Strike and have fair odds of hitting their intended target, whereas the Piranhas have to get across the field, which they're pretty vulnerable during.
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Old 20 Jan 2014, 05:10   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emberkahn View Post
I have been theorizing about moving shadowsun out of the unit in the movement phase and then jumping back in in the assault for the extra shot, however I am unsure whether this is legal.
Unfortunately it is illegal as an Independent Character joins the unit upon entering coherency during the movement phase. Once you're in you're stuck until the next movement phase. However, moving into coherency does not force the IC into joining a unit. The rule recommends keeping sufficient distance, but if you must squeeze the groups together at least be sure to distinguish what's what.
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Old 23 Jan 2014, 19:03   #8 (permalink)
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This is a very interesting concept. I too didn't notice the distinction between Crisis Shas'vre and a bodyguard crisis. Having signature systems separate from the three hardpoint limit does open them up to be a very effective way to make a tough HQ piece.

For my lists that use shadowsun or a generic commander, I typically put them together with a three man crisis team in order to have 4 plasmas and 4 fusions in the same team. That configuration typically runs about 300 - 350 pts, but offers a few more wounds and more versatile firepower in exchange for 1 lower toughness. Using bodyguards with HQ's that can't take signature systems themselves works nicely for sure, something I'm going to have to give a try.

Though I'd probably say that the points for iridium armor are better spent grabbing a pair of shield drones instead. They wouldn't autopass LOS, but two ablative wounds with 4+ invuln on top of the bodyguards will probably be more reliable on the whole than one higher toughness. After all, when facing most units putting this team in anything more than 6+ save terrain or cover will give them 2+ cover saves, and the invulns would do better against ignores cover weapons that are typically of higher strength.
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Old 23 Jan 2014, 22:47   #9 (permalink)
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I do love Iridium on a Commander, as the number of Wounds to chew through makes it worth it. Remember that Shield Drones cause Ld checks, potentially.
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Old 24 Jan 2014, 06:19   #10 (permalink)
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If you have a bodyguard unit with shield drones, Look Out, Sir will still be automatically passed. If the bodyguards die and the drones are still left, then you would have to begin rolling for LOS again.
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