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General Rule Question: Rapid Fire weapons and Assaults
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Old 06 Oct 2013, 20:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default General Rule Question: Rapid Fire weapons and Assaults

Okay, this something I thought I had figured out but there's been some confusion at my FLGS about this. Unless a model has Relentless, firing Rapid Fire weapons in the shooting phase will prevent that unit from charging in the same turn during the assault phase.

The BRB specifies that under the Rapid Fire rules fairly clearly. The diagram on the following page also shows that rapid fire weapons prevent a model from assaulting. In the Assault Phase rules, it also specifies that a unit that has fired rapid fire weapons cannot assault. Unless a model can separate from a unit during the movement phase, a single model in a unit firing a rapid fire weapon prevents the whole unit from charging in the assault phase of the same turn.

Several people are arguing and I had agreed with the interpretation that this rule only applies if the unit actually does use the rapid fire rule. e.g., if a unit is within rapid fire range and elects not to fire its extra shots, it is still allowed to charge. The issues is that, while choosing not to rapid fire their weapons, the weapons are still considered to have the rapid fire special rule. Does firing the weapon at all still prevent the unit from charging?

Here's an example from a game I played recently.

A 10 model CSM marine unit was within 12" from a 12 model Firewarrior unit. It elected to not fire it's bolters rapid fire, using only 10 shots instead of the extra 10 provided by the special rule. They then attempted to assault during the assault phase, taking hits in overwatch but failing to make the range.

Is that assault attempt legal? All the bolters were rapid fire weapons, but were not fired twice despite being in rapid fire range.
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Old 06 Oct 2013, 22:34   #2 (permalink)
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Nope. It's not legal. You may not assault after firing a rapid fire weapon. The weapon would still be a rapid fire weapon even if you didn't fire it at close range.
On a second note... I'm pretty sure if you fire a weapon you must fire it at full effectiveness and you can't choose to leave out half the dice involved. The only way you could argue for this case is that the rule says you "can" fire two shots at a target within half the range... but it's not a convincing argument in my opinion.
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Old 06 Oct 2013, 23:21   #3 (permalink)
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To solve the problem, Space Marines have Bolt Pistols for exactly this reason. If he only fired one shot each at 12" or less, and if CSMs get Bolt Pistols, then technically the result is the same. If the CSMs don't carry Bolt Pistols or they were traded away, then it was illegal.

This isn't unfair. - it forces some tactical thinking. For example, Kroot within 12" can Rapid Fire or Assault. It therefore demands some real thought into what will get more done.
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Old 07 Oct 2013, 03:36   #4 (permalink)
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You cannot assault after because it is not something you elect to do, it happens regardless.

Last edited by Cinder369; 07 Oct 2013 at 03:42.
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Old 07 Oct 2013, 04:18   #5 (permalink)
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Alright that makes sense. The player I was against at the time was using a squad that mostly had bolt pistols, with some traded for power weapons. It does sound like an important distinction to keep in mind. Considering that plasma guns and other weapons can also be rapid fire, knowing that a marine unit should be firing bolt pistols instead of plasma weapons seems pretty big to me.

Works both ways of course, but the only units I'd ever even want to get into assault with Tau are usually relentless anyway, in which case it doesn't matter.

40k is if anything, one gigantic IF : THEN problem. The whole conditional special rule of another special rule thing really gets me lost in the tangled web of rules. I have a hard enough time keeping track of my own special rules and having basic things down, much less situational applications like this.
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Old 07 Oct 2013, 15:03   #6 (permalink)
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the more you play the more comfortable it gets
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Old 07 Oct 2013, 21:54   #7 (permalink)
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I actually find the endless rule list very enjoyable. It means you can make the game as complex or as simple as you want it to be. For the most part you can play the game very simply, but if ever a question comes up you know you have an exact ruling to fall back on.
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Old 08 Oct 2013, 03:31   #8 (permalink)
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Although that can be a pain in the ass sometimes
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Old 08 Oct 2013, 07:14   #9 (permalink)
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Well despite my inability to keep everything straight, seems like I do better than some other guys who started at the same time as me with basic rules.

I tend to piss people off insisting on things like the above question. It's not even people being sore losers, half the time I'm losing. They only seem to get pissed when the rules advantage me though.
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Old 08 Oct 2013, 07:15   #10 (permalink)
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Well, that is human nature
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