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Tau strength and weakness
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Old 20 May 2013, 20:08   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Tau strength and weakness

With the resent release of the new dex we lost a lot of mobility gain a lot of mid str firepower str5 to str7 lost some heavy fire power str 10 ap1 miss be able to dish out 3 to 5 str 10 ap 1 hits depending on how may points I was playing. We can shoot a lot and force saving throws. I think the lost of mobility is are greatest weakness yes we can still JsJ with some of are units but are tanks now are slow as hell and won't be able keep up with the mobility of are crisis suits and stealth suit and drones that need that support from are railheads and ionheads. Are broadsides can't move and shoot effitivly anymore so they just stand there and shoot. So what to do to make up for this short coming? Add more firepower? Allies?
This post is not about CC we know we are not a cc army but a shooty army that use to be mobile. while not fast bye any means we did not have to decide if I move will I be able to shoot or just snapfire and so on.
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Old 20 May 2013, 21:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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It is my (opinionated) understanding that the new Tau book was written from the perspective of a person who did not play Tau. Were you to ask any 40K player what do Tau play like, you'd get our new codex. Very shooty, boosted with markerlights, with annoying jumping suits, but very squishy overall. That's exactly what we have.

The result was a boost to our hard counter abilities (S5-7, increased numbers of blast weapons, and a wide range of AP values), and a reduction in our soft counters (everything is slower and defensive shenanigans have been reduced and streamlined. Further, we are the trail blazer for the meta of moderation which GW has claimed it will be preaching this edition. The riptide is our closest thing to cheese, and no one part of the book stands out as super mega awesome; our flyers in particular seem sub-par because... they are. But this is a trend, we should expect to see more sub-par flyers before the edition is over. Overall you won't find a single player who will sympathize with you (except us 5th edition Tau players who know of the hard times), because the book is very very balanced.

So this brings us to the issue, we can no longer move about, and without our mobility, our soft counter abilities are gone. If we can't gun-line it down before it reaches us, we lose. Simple as that.

What do we do about it? That I have more trouble figuring out.

There's always the option of just not resisting and building the list GW envisioned for us. Static, un-moving, ground units including fire warriors, kroot snipers, pathfinders, and stationary tanks all buried deep in cover and backed up by rapid response crisis suits and riptides. I predict it to be boring as sin, and doomed to being average (without the introduction of soft-counter tactics, a hard-counter list will find its performance capped at its statistical probability of damage output, which for Tau is beautifully balanced... so we're going to lose a lot).

An alternative tact would be to resist the powers that be and mech up as always. Accept that you now have a 5th edition disruption pod, and move like a sloth if you want to shoot. The army will play like a mechanized imperial army most of the time, with a catch 22 for the Tau player; you can stay still, fire at full effect and lose your defenses, or move to generate your defense and lose your offensive firepower.

There's also the every popular hybrid Tau, which players in 5th who went broadside heavy always argued for. It comes with a larger cost now, and less effect... but it still functions the same as it did. Devilfish to keep the troops safe and provide mobile cover for the battlesuits, and a home base of heavy weaponry (tanks, broadsides, markerlights, etc.).

To be honest, I'm not happy with any choices so far, which is why I have yet to build a list for myself; I just keep reading the codex over and over, hoping to spot something that I can field to my liking. Hopefully I'll figure out a way to not be permanently sunk... though I have been spending a lot more time playing dark elves these days...
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Old 20 May 2013, 23:54   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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I agree with Carrelio, we lost some of the things that were good about the last Tau Dex. Our technology protected our tanks, let them have free range of movement, firepower and defense. My tanks now suffer losses where they never did before. I have been.....balanced. The soft counters are less, my suicidal kroot charge tactic is now no more. There is much to be lamented about in lose.

However, there is hope. (Especially if you are a veteran of the 5th edition Dark Ages.)

I disgree with that we only have the opton of going with the static gunline. Mech up boys. Ok, so you lost the Broadsides for Anti Tank. Hell, even with an ASS they couldn't get far anyway. A whole D6, which averages to maybe four inches, and our opponents always knew that the Broadsides were trouble. How many times did they actually live to the end? For me, they are now they are Bullet bait and Anti Heavy infantry. If you want to move and shoot with a tank, go 12 inches, toss some markerlight hits to your tank and blast the target. The Tau adapt, so should we.

To original post:
Strengths: Lots of firepower to be brought to bear. Tech that does not have many limitations, good array of upgrades and still, in my opinion, different play styles that would work. (Ninja Tau not working so much these days.) Point for point, lots of guns for little in points. Still the best common infantry gun in the game. Still the overall best tank gun in the game. (What other gun zaps Monoliths and Land Raiders consistently?)

Wait for it: The best flier introduced. (Wait.... hear me out) There is no other flier in the game that can be confirgured to successfully attack both other fliers and ground units just as effectively. A Sunshark will fire six times at the ground, three of which can be pie plates. Eight shots if you don't pie plate the Ion rifles. Two missiles in the pod, plus two seeker missiles. Another flier comes up, fire with the drones to knock it out. You have markerlight to fire the seekers on your own. Ok, so it is no Tigershark or even a Barracuda, but I have used my Shark and my opponents hate it with a passion. (I am buying another one. Hell my signature says i should be air heavy.) A Stormraven does have more armor, but one good shot from a well lite Rail gun will still take it out.

Weaknesses: Close combat will kill your army. Many have tried to prevent this, few have succeeded. Good enhancements of the army are HQ units. No psykers, limited defense against them. Squishy over all to pie plate attacks. Movement is not the best.
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So what you are saying is that your Ground Cadre has lots of Air Support?

No. What I am saying is that my Air Support has lots of Ground Cadre.

If a Land Raider dies to a rail gun, and no one was around to see it, does the kill point still exist?

Last edited by ranzin927; 20 May 2013 at 23:59.
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Old 21 May 2013, 23:54   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Free to point out where it says we can take those 2 additional seekers... as i read it you get the 2 in the pods included with the fighter and the bomber and thats it. No option to take 2 additional for X points like with the hammerhead.

Last edited by tycoon; 22 May 2013 at 16:42.
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Old 22 May 2013, 20:38   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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The Sun Shark carries a Missile Pod. Assault 2, str 7, AP 4 36" range
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So what you are saying is that your Ground Cadre has lots of Air Support?

No. What I am saying is that my Air Support has lots of Ground Cadre.

If a Land Raider dies to a rail gun, and no one was around to see it, does the kill point still exist?
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Old 23 May 2013, 00:04   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Ok, now I'm following again - was jumping to conclusion you were saying we had a way to get 2 additional ( for 4 total) seekers on those birds.
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Old 23 May 2013, 00:48   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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yeah ive thought a bit on the sun shark, the razor shark seems nasty with the 8-4 large blast, but i could see the sunshark with its ability to target 2 different targets
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Old 23 May 2013, 20:02   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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^3 targets the bomb can hit anything you pass over, the vehicle can shoot wherever you want, and the drones can shoot separately of the vehicle.
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Old 24 May 2013, 07:28   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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even better.....
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Old 24 May 2013, 10:44   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranzin927 View Post
I agree with Carrelio, we lost some of the things that were good about the last Tau Dex. Our technology protected our tanks, let them have free range of movement, firepower and defense. My tanks now suffer losses where they never did before. I have been.....balanced. The soft counters are less, my suicidal kroot charge tactic is now no more. There is much to be lamented about in lose.

However, there is hope. (Especially if you are a veteran of the 5th edition Dark Ages.)

I disgree with that we only have the opton of going with the static gunline. Mech up boys. Ok, so you lost the Broadsides for Anti Tank. Hell, even with an ASS they couldn't get far anyway. A whole D6, which averages to maybe four inches, and our opponents always knew that the Broadsides were trouble. How many times did they actually live to the end? For me, they are now they are Bullet bait and Anti Heavy infantry. If you want to move and shoot with a tank, go 12 inches, toss some markerlight hits to your tank and blast the target. The Tau adapt, so should we.

To original post:
Strengths: Lots of firepower to be brought to bear. Tech that does not have many limitations, good array of upgrades and still, in my opinion, different play styles that would work. (Ninja Tau not working so much these days.) Point for point, lots of guns for little in points. Still the best common infantry gun in the game. Still the overall best tank gun in the game. (What other gun zaps Monoliths and Land Raiders consistently?)

Wait for it: The best flier introduced. (Wait.... hear me out) There is no other flier in the game that can be confirgured to successfully attack both other fliers and ground units just as effectively. A Sunshark will fire six times at the ground, three of which can be pie plates. Eight shots if you don't pie plate the Ion rifles. Two missiles in the pod, plus two seeker missiles. Another flier comes up, fire with the drones to knock it out. You have markerlight to fire the seekers on your own. Ok, so it is no Tigershark or even a Barracuda, but I have used my Shark and my opponents hate it with a passion. (I am buying another one. Hell my signature says i should be air heavy.) A Stormraven does have more armor, but one good shot from a well lite Rail gun will still take it out.

Weaknesses: Close combat will kill your army. Many have tried to prevent this, few have succeeded. Good enhancements of the army are HQ units. No psykers, limited defense against them. Squishy over all to pie plate attacks. Movement is not the best.
Just fyi, I love your signature >_<

I've been decimating at my local gamestores gaming league, I can pass some of that off as new 'dex, but not all of it. Being a "Dark ages" (5th ed) veteran for tau has made me think.
The list I've been using does not include the riptide (albeit I will be swapping out the Ionhead for it soon (Large blast+ arguably more flexible and tough).

750 pts Nets me: (only gonna list the relevant upgrades)
Crisis commander (2Marker drones, Iridium,FNP, command link etc)
20 kroot (no sniper rounds )
2 squads of 12 Fire warriors, with shas'ui and 2 Marker drones.
Oh. and an Ionhead, because battlecannon, thats why (when I get the model though, its gonna become a riptide)

This low points, mecha seemed too difficult an option...
So; I gunlined (but with a mecha commander because stfu).
It seemed to work quite excellently (with my commander being nigh invincible, and tanking all the wounds)... Cascade effect off the markerlights, the CHEAP AS CHIPS bolter spam of kroot who shot Twin-linked (command and control node), and the fire warriors who shot dem baddies up at range... (after the enemy got battlecannon'd).
I even beat an enemy tau player (who went the full gunline, with pathfinders, a broadside, LOTS of Fire warriors and Fireblade+Ethereal).

This made me think... So when I played a larger game, I did what (those bastards) games workshop wanted me to do.
The gunline, supported by mobile elements...
it really worked...
although, the way I ran it was mostly mecha, with a few isolated immobile squads.
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