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Proposal
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Old 22 Mar 2009, 21:07   #21 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SILK
The entire point of being a moderator is to... err.... oh yeah! Moderate. Just because we are mods doesn't mean we are in any other way obliged to post more than a regular member of the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastafari Is
I realize that we already have Moderators within the boards but, if I understand correctly, they are just there for remedial purposes- ala not critiquing lists but rather cleaning up the forums.
As you can see, I do know the duties of Moderators...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendak
¡Rastafari Is! that is a completely different matter, this 'Critique' position is nothing like TK's 'Regulator'. You can make a separate thread if you feel the need to.
Well we were speaking of new positions within the forum so I thought that my post was acceptable. I didn't mean to forum hijack.

Obviously you're more interested in The Regulator and thats fine-- I'll get rid of all my posts that drug this topic off-topic.

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Old 22 Mar 2009, 21:10   #22 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Proposal

Quote:
As you can see, I do know the duties of Moderators...
But thats all that we are meant to be doing. If we come across a topic it is up to us, the person behind the keyboard as to whether or not to post, just like any other member.
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 13:59   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Proposal

I like the idea. It means that the GMods and Admins do not have to spend time on issues that may be trivial or easily solved, instead they only recieve word of the serious issues.

At my university, we have a similar system in place. If you have a problem, you see your lecturer/tutor. If they can't help, or are the source of the problem, you see your course co-ordinator. If they cannot help, you see the Dean. If he can't help, you go to the Vice-Chancellor, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingates_Hellsing
If the member who feels that they have been wronged doesn't want to go higher, than they obviously don't feel that wronged do they?
They may not know the proceedure, or indeed who to contact. It wouldn't just be that they don't feel wronged.

My suggestion would be that the Regulator has no additional priveledges over other forum members (except a swanky regulator title).

However, if said Regulator recieves a PM from an alledgedly aggrieved member (and they feel it should go further), he/she could provide a GMod or Admin with that PM (possibly a link to the thread in question if the Mod didn't delete the offending post) and then based on that, the Admin could then grant access to the mod lounge/karma logs etc, for the duration of time required to perform the Regulator's role. Once the job is finished, the Regulator goes back to being a normal member of the Forum.

With regards to the suggestion that the regulator be a well established, well respected member of the TauOnline community.. That could work, if they have a lot of respect among the community it could make their job smoother. On the flipside of the coin, however, if they are well established, they might have established opinions of members, chips on shoulders, baggage, etc which may influence their decision making (As I am new here (and don't really know anyone), I most certainly am not suggesting anyone does! I don't mean to offend anyone either). All I am saying is that the right person for the job would have to be selected.

It doesn't necessarily need to happen right away, but I feel it is worth looking into.
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 14:12   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Proposal

To be blunt, if a member feels this system is needed because they can't trust the Moderators to be fair, then perhaps they should just leave.
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 19:00   #25 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
To be blunt, if a member feels this system is needed because they can't trust the Moderators to be fair, then perhaps they should just leave.
That could work both ways though. If it's a one off then I'd be inclined to agree, If however it occured more regularly then it's not the member's problem it's the moderators. Though fortunately I don't think that here there is much of a problem with regards to the fairness of the moderators.
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 19:07   #26 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Proposal

I find this idea little odd. Even if you feel a mod has wronged you, as a new member why not ask any other mod for help? Mods are generally helpful creatures, and if they cannot do anything about it, they certainly know who can. Do we really need a third party when the mods are a group of individuals anyway? It's not like every mod is wargamer or silk or even FT (I know only Silk is a mod, but you get my drift) . Every person is different, and mods can disagree with eachother.


That being said, it does seem like an interesting way to make other members feel like a bigger part of the community, but is it really necassary?
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 20:46   #27 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Proposal

Lots of good feedback and criticism so far. Thanks people and please do keep it coming.

Now, to respond to some things which have been said:

@Boneguard: You are correct in your summarising of my proposal.

Now there is the important issue of how necessary this is, which several of you – such as Rafe, Hadhfang and Deraj - have talked about. Ultimately, the reason why this topic is here is to judge these kind of issues – is it necessary, is it something that members in general would like?

Now, obviously it’s early days – and I really would like to see more peoples’ views about this – but it seems to me so far that it's looking like there is enough support for this idea to warrant some kind of trial at least. And obviously it could be re-evaluated after that. If, as Vendak said, all they end up receiving is spam messages and they end up doing nothing that’s actually productive and good then obviously it would be scrapped.

Moving on, you do raise some good points Vash. I agree with you that there is a risk that if this isn’t carefully controlled, such a person could end up being someone who ends up shadowing and watching your every move. This is clearly not what anyone wants at all – and hence the final paragraph in my previous post which put a clear restriction on the Regulator’s authority in that, like an Ombudsman, he cannot act on his own initiative but must have been asked to do take a look at something first. Now, do you feel that this restriction doesn’t go far enough, is there something else specific which concerns you?

Also, I will just reiterate that I certainly do not support the Regulator having any actual power with regard to deciding and handing out punishments. That would be inappropriate and in my view such a system would be guilty of the charges you lay against my one – it would make the system confusing and convoluted and it would definitely be open to serious abuse. Now, you dismiss mine with a fairly blunt argument that if the Regulator doesn’t have any actual power then there would be no point. Frankly, I think you’re being a little unimaginative here by thinking of it in such black and white terms of direct power being the be all and end all. We see this kind of idea used increasingly all the time in the ‘real world’ – and for good reason. We shouldn’t underestimate the power of giving people the opportunity to have their genuine grievances looked at by a truly independent body and we certainly shouldn’t underestimate the power of the written argument.

Furthermore, you are absolutely right to say that situations are not black and white – and of course there is always the risk that Regulator cannot see all the facts. This is precisely why the final decision for action should always come down to either a Global Moderator or an Administrator. Now FT did raise the possibility that it might be appropriate to give the Regulator limited access to the mod Lounge and other such information. Now, that’s his suggestion, not mine, and I can’t really judge on how effective that could be, but if he thinks that’s a possibility, it definitely should be considered.
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 20:54   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau-killer
Now FT did raise the possibility that it might be appropriate to give the Regulator limited access to the mod Lounge and other such information. Now, that’s his suggestion, not mine, and I can’t really judge on how effective that could be, but if he thinks that’s a possibility, it definitely should be considered.
I think that a Regulator would need to have the same set of info the Mods do (to see what was actually done, what punishments were given, why, who and where etc).

Without such info, it would become impractical for everyone involved (having to wait for someone to check it out, post it back to them etc).
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 22:34   #29 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Server Virus (FT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau-killer
Now FT did raise the possibility that it might be appropriate to give the Regulator limited access to the mod Lounge and other such information. Now, that’s his suggestion, not mine, and I can’t really judge on how effective that could be, but if he thinks that’s a possibility, it definitely should be considered.
I think that a Regulator would need to have the same set of info the Mods do (to see what was actually done, what punishments were given, why, who and where etc).

Without such info, it would become impractical for everyone involved (having to wait for someone to check it out, post it back to them etc).
Can you do that without crashing TO? I'm only semi joking FT, is it actually possible to do something like that?

You would have to find members as mature as the mods themselves, and most of the mature members are mods though.

There isn't actually a good reason for it not to happen, as it isn't bad, it just seems like there isn't too much of a point. I'd like to follow this and see where it goes though.
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Old 23 Mar 2009, 22:43   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deraj
Can you do that without crashing TO? I'm only semi joking FT, is it actually possible to do something like that?
Actually, the Moderation Center is one of the settable permissions, and the karma log would be pretty easy to modify to do it, so yeah, it's a possibility.

If we go for this, how will we select who gets to become Regulators? Would it be entirely for the Mods and Staff to decide? Or the members to decide or a mixture of the two?
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