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A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.
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Old 13 Mar 2009, 01:54   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

Quote:
[New person], that is a fair model but needs improvement. Your paint needs to be a bit thinner, first off, and the same with the highlights. Keep it up, though.
Well obviously I can't speak for Vash. As far as I'm concerned, I would have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the above comment as a criticism.
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Old 13 Mar 2009, 03:06   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

I would like to share this as an example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
The conversions are not too shabby, though your GS work could use some improvement in making it more smooth and even.

The painting though could use some significant improvement. The World Eater test model for instance has very uneven coloring and very thick paints. You can improve this easily by starting with a black primer color and using the foundation paints or multiple layers of thinned down paints to get the colors right.

The Rhino is a definite improvement but the paints are still very thick, again thin them down and use multiple layers or use the foundation paints.

Then what I suggest is take a slightly lighter color and drybrush highlight the base colors which adds some depth to the color and helps make them not look flat.
As you can see there were a lot of problems with the models I had posted, and Vash pointed them out in a well thought out but very critical fashion. It's a very good middle road.
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Old 13 Mar 2009, 05:33   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deraj
I would like to share this as an example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
The conversions are not too shabby, though your GS work could use some improvement in making it more smooth and even.

The painting though could use some significant improvement. The World Eater test model for instance has very uneven coloring and very thick paints. You can improve this easily by starting with a black primer color and using the foundation paints or multiple layers of thinned down paints to get the colors right.

The Rhino is a definite improvement but the paints are still very thick, again thin them down and use multiple layers or use the foundation paints.

Then what I suggest is take a slightly lighter color and drybrush highlight the base colors which adds some depth to the color and helps make them not look flat.
As you can see there were a lot of problems with the models I had posted, and Vash pointed them out in a well thought out but very critical fashion. It's a very good middle road.
That is EXACTLY what I wsa talking about on the post that I made... it just IS.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 05:36   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

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Originally Posted by JD
NICE (note my first post) Critisism is complete bull. People don't take notice of nicely said things, if they are offended then maybe they need to realise that the world isnt a caring place to live.

My rational, Deal with it.
I see. So, obviously, for whatever reason, you're right, and the rest of us are wrong...according to...whatever rules you have in your own mind. I fail to see how you can simply lay down the law on how the rest of us are supposed to think/act/behave/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD
"If the truth shall kill them then let them die"
-Emmenual Kant
Hey, that's cool...apparently the truth of the matter is you have either a) failed to successfully elaborate on the exact method you are attempting to communicate, or more likely b) the truth of the matter is that most of us either outright do not agree with what you say and disapprove, or think that at the very least what you are saying is misguided or in error and needs correction.

Want to die?
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 14:34   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

The problem with Kid Gloves is that you're trying to provide reality without removing the rose-tinted glasses.

If any of you watch the X-Factor or similar, odds are you watch it for Simon Cowell. The man is god, and in the earlier series (before they all tried to be like Simon), it really showed.

Some idiot would show up and sing like a drowing cat. All the other judges would almost be in tears due to the effort of saying "you did really, really well... but just not quite well enough! I'm so sorry you're not going through!"

Simon, with a look of "what the hell?" proceeds to tell them they can't sing, can't dance, and have just humiliated themselves in front of an audience of millions.

The problem with the kid gloves is people don't learn. If you actually watch Simon Cowel in action, he has a sliding scale of abuse; you're either worthless, terrible, average, good but with flaws, or excellent. When he gives praise, you know that praise was earned, because you've spent weeks listening to him tear apart the idiots and wannabies.

Nobody is ever going to improve if the most horrific efforts get a "wow, that's awesome" reply. If people were more critical, it would also mean that quality work would really feel like an achievement.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 16:23   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

The problem with your analogy there, wargamer, is that the sorts of people putting forth their ideas or work on Tau Online are hobbyists. I'd assume most users here don't have aspirations to winning national tournaments or golden daemons. We're not involved in competition with millions of dollars at stake.

Giving blunt, harshly-stated criticism may lead particularly driven (perhaps obsessive?) individuals to improve. You often hear that story about the greatest sportspeople, for example.

For most regular people who don't have aspirations to be the best, such criticism will tend to always be unconstructive because, rather than improve, they'll just not put forward anything else for criticism. Maybe they'll even quit. If you really care about getting regular people to improve, your criticisms need to be encouraging and positively reinforce the effort and small successes they have made.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 16:43   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

Frankly, I think that before one ever decides to level harsh criticism at another's work, he should stop for a moment and remind himself that we are talking about plastic toy soldiers.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:30   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuron
Frankly, I think that before one ever decides to level harsh criticism at another's work, he should stop for a moment and remind himself that we are talking about plastic toy soldiers.
Yep.

And before my dad goes sbalistic if I break his award-winning depot that is like a Golden Dragon winner in its quality from a group that has always taken some kind of best at the National Train show whenever it went, he should not think of the HUNDREDS of hours he spent, or how many compliments he recieved, and just pass it by. :P

/SARCASM

Some people, Samuron, take a LOT of time with their models. Take me, for instance, I've been working on a single rhino for well over a year, never wanting to do it unless I'm in a mood where I'm confident that nothing will get in the way. Hell, I took about 3 hours once assembling a predator sponson just to get it perfect. Now, if there is something wrong that I'm doing, I'd rather know of it now than have to wait for someone to criticise 5 of my tanks done that way instead of one.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 20:55   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

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Originally Posted by Pythagoras
Some people, Samuron, take a LOT of time with their models. Take me, for instance, I've been working on a single rhino for well over a year, never wanting to do it unless I'm in a mood where I'm confident that nothing will get in the way. Hell, I took about 3 hours once assembling a predator sponson just to get it perfect. Now, if there is something wrong that I'm doing, I'd rather know of it now than have to wait for someone to criticise 5 of my tanks done that way instead of one.
I also spend a lot of time on models and gaming, and have done so for many years.

I fully support constructive criticism; however, if you feel that modeling, gaming, or science fiction in general warrant harsh criticism (which is what I said), then I simply believe that a dose of perspective is called for.
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Old 15 Mar 2009, 21:22   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: A few points on critisism, commenting and effective posting.

Once again, it all comes down to Malveaux's theme of respect. If we practice mutual respect for eachother, for our various levels of interest in the hobby and for our various takes on an imaginary universe set 40,000 years in the future - then events like those of the recent days will be minimized.
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