[Olannon]

Okay, so, looking at the kroot and my current mechTau cadre (cross.ref: Wrath of the Thunderforce, 1.5k MechTau), I suddenly realised how to incorporate those lovely kroot! IMO, you need them all or none, meaning a few ain't gonna help you. Doing this list gives me several points to bear in mind:
1. The only 'ground forces' (read: not tanks or mounted in tanks) are my battlesuits and kroot. Thus, infiltrating so many kroot will make my 2 shas'el pretty immune to being fired at, due to their IC rules. Think about it! Simply placing the kroot strategically in woods/cover around the table will allow my commanders to practically move freely in the open! Also, they're both accompanied closely by a monat (working someplace around 12" from my commanders), which will increase their efficiency.
2. I'm still mechTau, so I'll have extreme manoeuverability. Even with a 40 kroot quite static, it's only 1/5 of my army, roughly. It'll be hard indeed to imagine it's only 20%, and thus springing traps will be easy, simply throw enough kroot at a place, and he'll have to obey your numbers.
3. Finally I've got the expendable units I never seem to have when playing MechTau! 4x10 kroot should be enough to stall the most opponents, don't you think? ¨
4. I'm able to bring a lot of models, approx. 60 on the table, quite many for a mechTau army IMO.
5. Having fun! This game's all about having fun, right? I'm just imagining my opponent's faces when I tell him I've got 40 kroot, in 4 squads, all of which will infiltrate.

So, read through, and tell me what you think!

Shas'el, Twin-linked plasma rifles, fusion blaster, Hard wired Multi-Tracker- 96

Shas'el, Twin-linked missiles, plasma rifle, Hard wired Multi-Tracker- 97

Monat XV8, plasma rifle, missile pod, multi-tracker- 65

Monat XV8, team leader, TL missile pod, plasma rifle, Hard wired multi tracker- 82

6 XV15 Stealth suits- 180

12 FireWarriors
-Devilfish, Multi-Tracker, Decoy launchers-* 215

10 kroot- 70

10 kroot- 70

10 kroot- 70

10 kroot- 70

Railhead, burst cannons, target lock, multi-tracker, decoy launchers- 170

Railhead, burst cannons, target lock, multi-tracker, decoy launchers- 170

Ionhead, burst cannons, Multi-tracker, decoy launchers- 145


total: 1500

Hope you liked what you read I certainly enjoy this set-up, but I'd love some other points of view and comments. By the way, have you seen something like this before? (40++ kroot?)
Thanks for looking in, please state your thoughts.

EDIT: changed the XV8 config's a bit, using the remaining 9 pts

~Olannon

[Spookeh]

its an interesting approach, and i like your reasons.
i think you'll have to play it to see.

i have a feeling though that the bad sides could rear their heads

-what if u dont get infiltrate
-what if theres no good terrain for them, they'll die fast
-if they get charged, the assault blocks LOS which may hamper you a lot
-if they die to assaulters, the units can sweep into other elements of your army (downside of filling up so much area of the table)
-guant types will use them as a stepping stone


i disagree with you that a few kroot don't help.
i use 2x10 in 1500, and they often dont make their points back by killing things, but they regularly make their points back tactically.

[Deadnight]

Too many small squads of kroot!

Take 2 of 15+. 4 small squads of 10 is nice, but what if there is a lack of good cover? THey'll be in the open. and kroot in the oepn is a bad idea1

I am also not fond of your suit loadouts. Stick to deathrain for monats, and fireknife-7 for the shas'els.

And I would seriously suggest a second mounted FW team in an assault fish. take 2 teams of 8. not one of 12. smaller squads are far more efficient.

[Olannon]

so, deadnight, you're practically asking me to remove 10 kroot, change suit configs, remove 4 FW's and make 2 devilfish with 8 FW's? Hmm.... I dunno, I'll have to see some more opinions first

~Olannon

[Deadnight]

Leave the fish if you want (thats only a minor thing).

I mean, if lots of kroot is the theme run with it.

Its just 2 bigger squads of kroot are IMO better than4 small ones.

And i just dont like the loadouts. My own preference. I prefer to keep my suits cheap, but efficient.

[Spookeh]

seems contradictory as well, telling you to make the FW smaller "smaller squads are far more efficient." but make the kroot bigger "Too many small squads of kroot! Take 2 of 15+"


i like the 4x10 kroot. i dont think 2x15 is going to be better in any way, (espcecially as its 10 less models.)
it almost seems as if he didnt really read the original posts, "I mean, if lots of kroot is the theme run with it." it is obviously the theme, its even the title of the thread... exploring the idea..

[Spookeh]

oh one thing i was going to mention earlier, if you have say short ranged shas'els, like the tl plasma / fusion guy, then the kroot will allow him to get close to his targets, they work really well for that.

but the problem you may face is the enemy will target the kroot with ordnance, in order to shoot the shas'el. it'd be fairly hard to get within 12" of a unit while being screened with the kroot, and jump away from the kroot with the assault move, so you're always going to be pretty close to them.

note that with a flamer, you're required to position the template so it covers the max amount of models in the unit. but with ordnance or blasts you're not, you can drop it on the kroot model that is nearest the shas'el, and catch him in the blast as well and then he dies like a chump.
he can put his template anywhere on the unit, as long as the central hole is over a kroot model.

i've been caught with the same sort of thing too, putting my shas'el really close to fire warriors to protect him from all angles from drop troop suicide guard squads, only to then find the leman russ dropping shells onto the firewarriors, with the intention of getting the shas'el

[Deadnight]

Originally Posted by Spookeh

seems contradictory as well, telling you to make the FW smaller "smaller squads are far more efficient." but make the kroot bigger "Too many small squads of kroot! Take 2 of 15+"

i like the 4x10 kroot. i dont think 2x15 is going to be better in any way, (espcecially as its 10 less models.)
it almost seems as if he didnt really read the original posts, "I mean, if lots of kroot is the theme run with it." it is obviously the theme, its even the title of the thread... exploring the idea..

As a mechtau advocate, I must add to this element of fire warrior usage. I have found that maximum fire warrior teams in Devilfish are often wasted.* They're useful at one point, and then usually take so much damage that their returns are diminished aftwards.* Plus at the 7th casualty, you're broken at ld7 and cannot regroup without bonding.* The 6 man fire warrior teams are pure mech squads and I see them as min/max, ie: a big no-no.* 8 man teams however, are between the minimum and between the maximum, so we're looking at a balanced number.* When you have 24 fire warriors, would you rather have 2 squads of 12 or 3 of 8? I prefer the 3 of 8 because there are only 6 turns in the game and usually one of them gets away untouched while the other two take the punishment.* 2 big squads end up below strength and non-scoring.* The devilfish is nice to have against various opponents.* You may think they're wasting a lot of shots holding fire warriors, but you can dump the firewarriors, then move off and start the fight elseware.* The point is, 24 fire warriors is great, but 3 deviflish is stronger and much more resilient against almost any opponent.* 3 8 man teams in devilfish are quite nasty.* You'll find if you lose one, you don't lose too much, because 2 fish supporting each other are quite good.* Also, I find I hit much more often with a couple of BS4 burstcannons and twinlinked carbines than a full squad of fire warriors, only I have glancable A12 instead of T3 4+ saves.* It works nicely, especially in conjunction with XV8 missile pods and of course, Kroot.

Regarding Kroot

I prefer smaller numbers of squads (ie 1-2) instead of larger numbers (3-4) for one reason. COver. Chances are, you will not have enough cover to fit your 4 squads into. And even if there is cover, it may not be of any practical use to you, but you will be forced to use it. Whereas its easier to do with 1-2 squads. I take one squad. there is always cover for them.

Secondly, isimply prefer kroot in larget numbers. Why? More melee attacks, simply. More shots into individual targets and more damage. And it takes more kills to break them as a squad.

thats why.

[Spookeh]

yes, i know that multiple smaller units has advantages over fewer larger squads.

the points you raise apply pretty much just the same to the kroot however. which is why i called it contradictory, you wanted to make the kroot bigger and the FW smaller.

the other factor is you pay a points overhead for a devilfish, and if you don't fill it, you still pay the 100 pts or whatever, even if its got 4 empty seats.

[Olannon]

well, I'm really afraid on running low on plasma rifles, couse if I could, I'd take more deathrains and perhaps only the hq's with fusion/plasma. This would leave room for 2x8 FW's in fish (which I, like you deadnight) find is the best number and most efficient way to use them. Hm... I'm gonna play some border patrol now, I'll review my list (with my friends) after a couple of patrols, and then post again. Remember, (although I didn't state this before), that a friend of mine is playing nemesis marines:

2 small scouts squads with vet serg/tp homer (to fill up the compulsory troop choices, he doesn't feel like playing deathwing),
and a shitload of 20-25 termies...

So, d'you understand my plasma fear?

other enemies are ulwthe, IG, nids necs and chaos, so it'll be a nice mix, thus I need a balanced force (besides, I'm trying to make an allrounder to meet 'strangers' as well...