[ShasO_Ores_Malcaor]

I was pondering my army list, when it occurred to me to revamp it, and make it better. So, I humbly ask for your advice! Here is the list as is:

HQ

(98) Shas’el:TL Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-tracker

ELITES

(83) Crisis Shas’ui Team Leader:TL Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-tracker
(83) Crisis Shas’ui Team Leader:TL Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-tracker
(100) Stealth Suits x3:Bonded

TROOPS

(235) -Firewarriors x12:Bonded
* * * * *-Shas’ui (+10)
* * * * *-Devilfish:Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

(235) -Firewarriors x12?Bonded
* * * * *-Shas’ui (+10)
* * * * *-Devilfish:Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

HEAVY SUPPORT

(165) Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers

TOTAL 999

So, what do you guys think?

[Khaldun]

A revamp eh? Personally, I tend to have several 1000, 1500, and 2000 point lists running around at any one time, and simply choose the one I feel like using that day.

Allow me to go over each unit individually;

HQ;

a 98 point shas'el is kind of pushing the point efficiency.... A shas'el, it turns out, is better than an O if he has less than 50 points of wargear. An O is better if he has more than 50 points of wargear. (in general) Choose which one you want, and try either to make your suit as expensive or cheap as possible to maximize efficiency. (give the O a shield, for instance) Personally, for an excellent and cheap, yet cost effective, HQ, go for the shas'el fireknife. Lacking a shield, he can stay behind the rest of your army and never recieve fire. His configuration allows him to adjust on the fly to whatever is most threatening and be able to damage it as well.

ELITES:

both crisis suits having the exact same weapons fit can be somewhat limiting. I'd reccomend choosing your 2 favorite configurations (besides firenknife, which your commander would already have covered). Go for deathrain, burning eye, or helios.
3 stealths are good, but bonded? You have to lose precisely 2 stealths for this to become usefull.. lose one more in the same turn or simply pass your ld tests and it isn't worth it... 10 points is a bit high to save a 30 point model once in a blue moon... especially when the unit can no longer contest anyway. This is my opinion, but you can ignore it if it works in your experience.

Troops:

shas'ui is a must for the fw's. Think about it this way; there are 36 different results you can roll up on 2 dice, and moving from a 7 to 8 ld. you gain 5 extra results that pass, for a total chance of 26/36 or, put in percentages, a 72% passing rate compared to a previous passing rate of 55.6%.

Both squads, however, are mounted. You may want to consider experimenting with squads of 8-10 fw's in the fishes. If the fish is shot down, you won't lose as many points. If you never disembark, you'll have points spent elsewhere that were firing. When you do disembark, you lose very little of your firepower as well. It basically keeps it worth YOUR time to attack with them, but not really worth your opponents time to shoot them down.

Bonding static fw's, I can understand. However, in my experience, mounted fw's either stay above half or are basically wiped out. Especially if you reduce the squad size, consider dropping the bonding for more points elsewhere.

The railhead fits nicely, although consider getting a target lock and upgrading to sms (you could just do target if you felt like it) Here's what happens;
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/...LoSAttack.html

Or you can blast the tank and shoot the infantry at the same time... all for 5 extra points! I find the extra efficiency is always worth those extra 5 points. Plus it's very fun to be able to lend fire precisely where it's needed; blasting the big squad and finishing off the small one at the same time always earns me a grin.

So if you take ALL of my suggestions (unlikely) your list would look something like this;

shas'el fireknife 85
monat deathrain with flamer 57
monat helios 63
3 stealths 90
2 squads of 8 fw's with shas'ui, both in devilfishes with multi/decoy 370
railhead with burst, decoy, multi, target 170

For a total of 835, leaving you an extra 165 points to play around with.... which is exactly how much an ionhead or another railhead might cost, or perhaps a full squad of 6 stealths by adding 3, or some kroot, or more crisis. We have basically "trimmed the fat" and made the army cheaper while still maintaining good firepower and defense. I'm not going to suggest anything specific for filling those points if you choose to take my advice... you probably know best what your list's deficiencies may be and how to fill them.

[ShasO_Ores_Malcaor]

I usually have several lists too, I just thought this particular one needed an upgrade.

HQ
You are probably right about that, I will experiment to see how well it works...

ELITES
I have to disagree here. I usually play on a 4' by 4' board, so packing tons of missile pods over Plasma Rifles may not be the best idea. The Missile Pods are better for the first turn, maybe the second as well, but the Plasma Rifles are much more effective when the enemy (mostly Space Marines) is right in your face. I may consider changing one of the Crisis suits to a Helios though.

TROOPS
Ummm...the Firewarriors already have a Shas'ui. I have 2 squads of 12 because I usually tend to start them dismounted, and take advantage of their 30" range. The Devilfish are there as a sort of insurance policy. If the enemy gets too close, the Firewarriors just hop in, and move away.

HEAVY SUPPORT
I'll agree to the Target Lock, but not the SMS. I have found that the Burst Cannons have been more cost effective. For 10 points, all you get is an extra 6" range, no LOS needed, and you actually LOSE 2 shots.

[Khaldun]

Originally Posted by Death Jester Darconian

TROOPS
Ummm...the Firewarriors already have a Shas'ui. I have 2 squads of 12 because I usually tend to start them dismounted, and take advantage of their 30" range. The Devilfish are there as a sort of insurance policy. If the enemy gets too close, the Firewarriors just hop in, and move away.

I knew you had shas'ui upgrades for your squads, I was simply saying what a good idea it was to keep the shas'ui upgrade and not change it.

And that's actually how I use my fw's about half the time. I tend to have 1 dismounted squad (as I have broadsides, the fw's stick around them and protect them, along with some kroot if I have any) and a mounted squad which starts on the ground 1/2 the time; the devilfish runs out in front of them to block potential assaulters and force ld tests to shoot the fw's, then runs back and picks them up when the enemy gets close. If this strategy wouldn't work, they start mounted.

[ShasO_Ores_Malcaor]

Thanks for your help, I appreciate you taking time out to review my list. I think I will try out your suggestions before I finalise the changes.