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LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!
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Old 07 Oct 2005, 03:39   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

Shas'O Fireknife
PR MP MT* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 110
Shas'O Fireknife* * * * * * * * * * * 110

Expensive, I know but with two ICs, these guys should be able to hold my lines and from Deep Strikers and can be used offensively once the tide is turned in my favor.

Stealth Suits x 4* * * * * * * * * * *120

Might add one more suit, I hate taking those leadership rolls. They should not really get shot in the first place, they are the distraction, unless I am playing a horde army. Then they become my front line guys.

Crisis suit Fireknife* * * * * * * * * * * 65
Crisis suit Fireknife* * * * * * * * * * * 65

I love these guys, they do great at slowing the enemy offensive. Nuff Said

FireWarrior x 11* * * * * * * * * * * * 130
Shas'ui x 1

FW x 11 Shas'ui x 1* * * * * * * * * *130

FW x 11 Shas'ui* x 1* * * * * * * * * *230
Mounted in DF - DL TA Seeker x 1

These are my mobile troops and will not deploy until needed or will be used to draw/spread out my oppenent. It will really depend on how my oppenent sets up. If I can start shooting with them from turn one, they will start on the ground.

Kroot x 12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 84

Just to hold my flank, unless there is a forest out there, then they become very offensive.

Broadside* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *75

Hammerhead TA MT Rail BC TL DL 170

Pathfinders x 8* * (x3 with Railguns) 211
DF with DL
*forgot the total*
Total comes to an even 1500

I was thinking of adding a Shas'ui to the Pathfinders but not too sure.*If I am playing a heavy armor/vehice army I might do some changes and add a BS. I could almost add a BS if I drop all the extra stuff like Railrifles, Shas'ui, Seeker. All those extra add-ons add up. I would also drop one Shas'O to a 'el, to get him in there!
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Old 07 Oct 2005, 03:48   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

A very good list and looks balanced, I personally wouldnt take Fireknife on a commander of any sort but thats your preferance. What I would suggest are Shield Gennerators and Hard Wired Multi Trackers. You never know when a lucky ordanance shot can clip your expencive Shas'O and down them in one shot. The Shield Gennerator insures protection in this type of event or anything else that crops up like a power sword wielding assasine.

The rest looks good. A nice static element to anchor the force for the mobile units to do their job. Placement of the static units will be key but then thats usually a given with static units anyway.
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Old 07 Oct 2005, 08:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

you mention a lot about anchoring your lines, and holding flanks etc.
defending ground doesn't really work with tau, (its not fluffy either)
its usually better to just slip away from pressure, rather than try and smash them, even if it means abandoning the broadside to die or whatever. (which isn't fluffy either)

its the hard part of playing hybrid, the conflict in purpose between the fluid element and the static element. you have a lot of shas'la in a static firebase that you can't afford to let die, so the mobile element has to work to protect them, and the kroot will also be needed there as well to support them, rather than infiltrated into annoyance terrain like they should be.

i found hybrid works better if you put the broadside in the far corner by himself, and take 6 man static squads and disperse them. this way, the static parts are cheap enough that you dont need to kill yourself defending them if they get attacked too much, and they also attract less attention.

i dont think it works well with pathfinders, at 1500, and even less if they've got railrifles, as then they're too expensive and fragile and you're back to having to defend them.
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Old 07 Oct 2005, 10:43   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

Nice army. BUT...

I don't like Firekife's. It's to hard to pick a target for them. Instead, I'd use a Helios or two (man I love those guys! Eat Plasma and Fusion, Termie scum!).
I'd DEFINITELY scrap the Shas'ui's and all. Bond them instead. Trust me on this, I've lost too many battles due to not Bonding.
Where's the Decoy Launchers on the HH (I like D-Pods on them aswell)? They're a standard on all Tau vehicles. Apart from that I like it.
Well, there's my 2c. for now.

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Old 07 Oct 2005, 11:16   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

Heya, just a couple quick comments, looks like a fairly good list overall, if you change nothing I think you will still be succesful.

On the two O's, I would make one a plasma/fusion (as suggested earlier) but I personally have always felt the 'O upgrade was worth it.

I agree with dropping the Ui upgrades on your FW's

I would make one of the static crisis suits into a deathrain, I think you will find he has more survivability (cause he has FW's in front of him and has some serious range) and will kill pretty much the same amount of troops.

I would throw a MT on the fish, I think he will kill enough to warrant the points

Where is the fish for your pathfinders?

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Old 07 Oct 2005, 16:16   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
. . . I personally wouldnt take Fireknife on a commander of any sort but thats your preference. What I would suggest are Shield Generators and Hard Wired Multi Trackers.*
So far I play very defensively, I have been thinking about switching to a Helios but aaaaaI don't know yet. I have been thinking about Shield Genorators, but I don't leave them close to the static force of my list. I have wondered how they would do, if I started to use them in a very Offensive Manner with and without SGs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookeh
you mention a lot about anchoring your lines, and holding flanks etc.
defending ground doesn't really work with tau, (its not fluffy either)
its usually better to just slip away from pressure, rather than try and smash them, even if it means abandoning the broadside to die or whatever. (which isn't fluffy either)

I don't really HOLD THEM, I just set my troops up in certain way so I can respond to a charge or to an attack to my flank. I try to keep my plans very fluid, such as the Kroot, if there is a forest out there, they really run for it and make a pain of themselves. In the mean time, the rest of my force hits and weakens units where they can threaten me and I weaken a side where I may chose to go offensively.


i found hybrid works better if you put the broadside in the far corner by himself. .

I do this but I don't really protect him. His job is to take out at least one transport. If he takes out one tank even better, a chimera (because of the number of shoots it pumps out) and I let a small smile cross my face.

i don't think it works well with pathfinders, at 1500, and even less if they've got railrifles, as then they're too expensive and fragile and you're back to having to defend them.
*

I have been thinking of dropping the Pathfinders or Railrifles, your are right, they don't pay for themselves really but my opponents (have not learned) spend quite a few turns and valuable weapons firing at them, which helps out my force.

As for the Plasma Fusion, we don't really have a lot of Teleporting Termis out here. I think four crisis suits all with some Rapid fire Plasma scares them enough to not try it. So, I would be losing out on Fusion (such a short range).

BUT will consider it, since I really have not played Tau at this points level. I really don't know what to expect. So I was going to use this list as a base for playing 1500 points.

Also if you have any comments on Deep Striking Suits, please let me know. I have pondered it but no one has suggested it, comments on when to use it or NOT to use would greatly be appreciated.

WT
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Old 08 Oct 2005, 05:07   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookeh
you mention a lot about anchoring your lines, and holding flanks etc.
defending ground doesn't really work with tau, (its not fluffy either)
its usually better to just slip away from pressure, rather than try and smash them, even if it means abandoning the broadside to die or whatever. (which isn't fluffy either)
This is true, but... the codex says under the tactics section and I quote: "The kroot are deployed so that they can move into the cover of the wood. They support the Tau and prevent the flank being turned."

Even if your in retreat its important that the flanks are protected, being attacked from one direction is bad, but two or three is worse. Besides when the enemy is pressing in from two fronts we cant evade them very easily, this cuts our mombility and weakens our force which obviously isnt good.

So yes, Tau dont hold ground, but even for the execution of an ambush and the possible lightning attack or retreat it is important to hold the line and keep the flanks secured. Not so much in 40k but still, its a good practice to get into.

Also when a line is properly anchored it can flow where it needs to and be under constant protection. I use two static Firewarrior squads so far to anchor my force, they allow me to advance under covering fire, this suppresses the enemy and allows for my army to maintain intact and in tight formation as I either wedge into the enemy or set up in an objective. When my army becomes mechanized this will no longer be nececary but until then it allows my mobile units to get where they need to without worrying about concentrated return fire from the enemy who is trying to minimize thier losses from my long range fire.

So both ideas are valid. The Tau do not hold the ground at all coste, but they will hold the line at all coste. It is important to keep an army in formation for if it breaks apart and becomes a route, well thats a very bad thing.

Again not that important for 40k, but another good practice.
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Old 10 Oct 2005, 01:08   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

I did a search on Deep Striking suits, and it looks like not too many Tau players are really Deep Striking anything.

Not too many comments on my list so, I guess I am in the ball park. I currently have everything on that list. But I will also take suggestions on what I could add when I go to 1500 to 2000 points.

I do have another Rail/Ion head but where I play, we don't really use a lot of vehicle. I might throw it in there, but I would have to do come serious cutting to get one more Railhead in there.

Thanks everyone for the comments and help. I will be taking this list and couple of alternative lists as well. I am hoping I have enough Railguns (two) to handle most opponenents.
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Old 13 Oct 2005, 18:01   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

Wolf-Tau-

Finally catching up on Army lists! I appreciate your comments on mine and would love to hear how your more static-hybrid list did against your opponents. Some things I have questions on:

1. Why so many Fireknifes?
I understand the versatility of the FK loadout, but with 4 crisis suits (2 of them Shas'o!) have you considered loading-out for more specialized tasks? A lot fo folks sugggested a Shas'o Helios which I think is a great idea! Once you've specialized one shas'o as "heavy infantry killer" it becomes even easier to specialize another suit! My suggestion:

HQ: Shas'o Helios, Shas'o Helios - total points: 216. (Saved you 4 points)
Elites: x2 Crisis Deathrains - total points: 112 (Saved you 18 points!)

Now you have clearly identified roles for each suit and you can use the IC status of the Shas'o to the fullest. JSJ close, unload vicious terminator-killing power and JSJ behind another unit. For the Deathrains, you can still pop things with the Missile pods, but now that's what they'll be doing every turn. I love the Fire Knife myself, but I've started to see how specializing the Suits has really made their points worth it every time!

2. To Bond or not to Bond?
I think the Shas'ui is worth it far more than bonding. You want to be sure to pass the initial leadership test…if the unit is below 50% and you're worrying about rallying them, you'll still wish you had 8 leadership. For the static squads, I'd give them bonding as well. It ups the points a bit, but for static it is worth it. For the guys in the DF, I'd just keep the Shas'ui. I'd also drop the Seeker. Whenever I've had them in my army, 1 was never effective. It's either 3 seekers or none at all.

3. Pathfinders
I'm curious as to how a pathfinder squad performs in a 1500 point list. I've fielded them twice now and they have performed miserably. Either killed too soon or the markerlights couldn't light up any effective targets. I have a feeling that when I play a third time, they'll be better…since now my opponents have such low expectations of them. When you do field them, I'd love to hear your learnings. I feel like folks don't talk about PFs on these boards enough. Also, I'd go with 2 Railrifles, not 3. Since it appears you did not TL the railrifles, you're going to have to be targetting the same unit you're lighting up…which means that either the RR will be killing infantry before a Railhead blast lands or doing nothing since you're marking a vehicle. 30 points is too much. 20 would be better. Plus, every RR taken means one less markerlight, which lowers your percentage of markerlight hits. For a take all comers list, I might consider no RRs at all.

4. Heavy Support
I like the Broadsides. I really do. Same goes for the Railhead. Protect that BS with your Static/Kroot squads and you should be fine.

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Old 14 Oct 2005, 16:34   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: LooK HERE! New 1500 Tau List. All Comers! Please Critique and suggest!

more hammerheads. 2 minimum.
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