[Commissar_Will]

Just a quick fluff question here really - say you have your standard codex chapter, 1000 Marines. Bout what kind of losses would said chapter have to take before they would be declared critically under-strength and merged with another chapter? I need to know for my chapter's fluff. Thanks in advance for any help you can give here.

[The_Warmaster]

I'm no Space Marine fluff expert, but I think it would be about 85-90% losses. That would leave them with about a reinforced company. Though the Crimson Fists had been reduced to 128 Marines, and they're rebuilding, so I'm not sure if it would be greater than 90% losses.

[khanaris]

I can not recall ever hearing of survivors being "merged" into another Chapter, so you would need to explore that idea. My understanding is that if they dropped below a certain amount of Geneseed they couldn't make enough organs for new marines, and the Chapter basically just went extinct over time. I am guessing about half a company would be the effective limit.

[ollieb8]

On the matter of Crimson Fists then, do they have some sort of 'Plot Immunity' when it comes to the factor of not having enough Genseed to replinish the Chapter's rank or do they happen to have a lot stored in the Fort-nevermind. If their Monastory was levelled and the Chapter strength reduced so low, how could they possibly return to their full strength (they haven't but it implies that they can in the Space Marine Codex)?

[khanaris]

I guess it implies that Company strength is enough...

[Commissar_Will]

Hmm...I'm not sure where I read it, come to think of it, but I do recall that, if a Chapter was practically decimated, then their forces would be absorbed by another Chapter which shares the same Founding Chapter - presumably, the other Chapter would have to be either a non-codex chapter which isn't limited to 1000 fighting Marines (like the Templars) or would have to be a bit under-strength themselves, else it'd leave them with too many Marines. The reason I'm asking is because according to the fluff for the Scions of Strife, my DIY Chapter, they were formed from two Chapters which emerged together from a disastrous campaign after both having been nearly annihilated, who shared a Founding Chapter and so were amalgamated after having been bonded by the fires of battle and shared disaster, all that jazz. I'm just wondering what sorta numbers they'd have to be whittled down to for this to happen, or whether it'd happen in the first place, what with fluff constraints like Chapters very rarely sending their entire body of battle-ready Marines into one engagement and possible gene-seed issues that I have no idea about.

[The_Warmaster]

Originally Posted by Commissar_Will

Hmm...I'm not sure where I read it, come to think of it, but I do recall that, if a Chapter was practically decimated, then their forces would be absorbed by another Chapter which shares the same Founding Chapter -

I think, but I'm not entirely sure, that that was a Wargamer assumption. He wrote an article some time ago which was basically a "How do I create my own Chapter".

Not 100% sure, but I think that's where I read it too.

I'll see if I can find the thread in question.

[Wargamer]

Excuse me? That notion is pure garbage.

"Decimated" means they lost one in ten of their force. That's a single Company. A Chapter can easily operate with two or even three Companies out of action! Case in point, the Ultramarines; Behemoth devoured the entire First Company, yet the Chapter carried on just fine.

For a Chapter to be abandoned altogether, they really need to be suffering 90%+ losses, ideally including their Command Staff.

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Silk Spectre

On the matter of Crimson Fists then, do they have some sort of 'Plot Immunity' when it comes to the factor of not having enough Genseed to replinish the Chapter's rank or do they happen to have a lot stored in the Fort-nevermind.

It's the same geneseed as the Imperial Fists...

[Marshal Laeroth]

From what I understand of the Crimson Fist fluff, it was either abstain from prolonged conflicts so they could rebuild their chapter OR ride into battle with what little numbers they had left with bolters blazing until their were none left alive. Honor and Glory for the Emperor, or death.

Personally, I don't think a chapter would merge into another one, even one of the same lineage. Their customs and traits are just too different. I believe if they hit that magic unrecoverable number, they would arm up and throw themselves into a crusade for the Emperor. But maybe its just the Black Templar in me speaking out.