[Warpspiderman]

Hey everybody! I have a very small Black Templars force and was thinking about continuing them a little, but am kind of stuck as to what to do. I have a rhino, a squad of ten guys, a squad of five guys, an Emperor's champion, and a commander. First off, I want to get a chaplain instead of the commander. I'd probably get Grimaldus and field him as a normal Chaplain because of his bad-ass factor. A foot-slogging SM army would be so cool! It's just not very viable in 5th ed. Any ideas on how I could expand my army?

Also, If the Templars were to get updated, what do you think they would improve? We don't have any psykers, so I'm not sure how they would make improvement besides some minor point cuts (rhinos come to mind :P)

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Actually footslogging Templars are quite effective due to the fact that they will head towards the enemy as soon as they loose a guy. rhinos help, and assault termies in a landraider crusader will ruin anyones day.

[Dangerman]

Get a Land Raider Crusader. Its the centre piece of a Templars army and we can take them as dedicated transports

Get some scouts and put them as Neophytes. Also those 10 and 5 man squads are they Chainswords and Bolt Pistols or Bolters. Because the CC+BP combo with 15 guys on the charge is potent. Work on the Crusader Squads and the Assaulty core of the army then get the supporting roles such as fire teams, terminators, assault troops, and vehicles.

I see a lot of Vindicators flying around in BT lists these days. I have 2 now for holding down objectives and chokepoints. Maybe these are an option, but it all depends on your play style.

[Warpspiderman]

Thanks for the advice, Dangerman ;D

[ParadoxRifts]

I would definitely include something that is both quick and reliable enough to be depended upon to successfully chase down and kill anything that your opponent might send out to try and turn your special movement rules against you. Nothing is quite as bad then a squad that decides to start chasing down the enemy, by moving in completely the wrong direction!

[icer190]

I have a problem now with foot slogging being too viable against pretty much any army nowadays, that is in part due to the fact that its hard to move fast before they can take extremely large casualties. The accuracy of the enemy you're fighting also has a bit to do with it, its hard to make it into combat when you have 2000 points of Imperial Guard shooting at you, 3 of those large blast, and with the new cover rules, depending on the player, you may or may not get cover.

You need to have a quick way to get a piece of your army to the lines and distract them, or start killing, before the rest of your army gets up there. That bit has to be tough, able to survive a bit of shooting first.

There's more, but I've lost my train of thought...

[Warpspiderman]

Yeah, the shooting has been the biggest problem. Now with rhinos being 35 points in the normal marine dex, you can basically get a 'get out of jail free' card when the nasty stuff starts shooting at you. It'll make all your units fast, protected, and able to tank shock. For 35 points.

What's that, about 2 marines? You'll definitely lose a lot more than that going across the table on foot the good ol' fashioned way. Doesn't matter if I move an extra 5" if Dark Reapers mow my whole squad down. Or if a mawloc deepstrikes right on top of me for that matter... (Str. 6 AP 3 large blast)

Basically it seems I'll have to mount everything in rhinos and LR's. Possibly a drop pod or two. Just doesn't seem very Black Templar-y. I always got the feeling of a big crusader-knight charge when I picture them. ;D

[Anubis]

tbh it suits the marines fluff wise anyway. The idea of marines is the strike hard and fast. Rhinos, LR's and drop pods fit the bill perfectly for this imagery. Their playing style fits it too. Marines excel up close, no matter what equipment they have...
If they have the cc and pistol set up then they are close enough to get assaulting and maul the enemy in person, and if they have bolters, they can rapid fire and tear up the enemy with sustained fire. Not to mention you have flamers and meltaguns at disposal. There are squads able to sit back and provide heavy fire support (devastators, vindicator, whirlwind, thunderfire) but the bulk of your force is meant to be getting in to the press as fast as possible.

Drop pods are awesome if you combine it with a couple of scout squads or a land speeder storm ;D
Or even a bike squad to go speeding forward. Just fit locator beacons (storm already has one)

[icer190]

Originally Posted by dontlookdown

tbh it suits the marines fluff wise anyway. The idea of marines is the strike hard and fast. Rhinos, LR's and drop pods fit the bill perfectly for this imagery. Their playing style fits it too. Marines excel up close, no matter what equipment they have...
If they have the cc and pistol set up then they are close enough to get assaulting and maul the enemy in person, and if they have bolters, they can rapid fire and tear up the enemy with sustained fire. Not to mention you have flamers and meltaguns at disposal. There are squads able to sit back and provide heavy fire support (devastators, vindicator, whirlwind, thunderfire) but the bulk of your force is meant to be getting in to the press as fast as possible.

Drop pods are awesome if you combine it with a couple of scout squads or a land speeder storm ;D
Or even a bike squad to go speeding forward. Just fit locator beacons (storm already has one)

A large chunk of what you said is 100% inapplicable here.

Black Templar, a separate codex don't have:

• Souts
• Whirlwinds
• Land Speeder Storms
• Thunder Cannons
• Locator Beacons
• Devastator Squads

You really need to pay attention to what you're reading.

Additionally: You think Marines are hard in close combat? Black Templar put regular marines to shame! Allrighty, you're going to charge me. Ok, I'll do my counter attacks... And then we'll go at the same time, oh, everything but my neophytes has prefered enemy, that means all those to-hit rolls I missed? Re-rolled! I've had an ork squad of 30, charge me, and lose combat. Because I took out roughly 11 guys before he could even attack!
[hr]

Another tactic that I enjoy deploying with my Black Templar is a squad of bikes with 3 plasma guns, turbo boost them first, or just a 12" move, and hurt a large pointed squad, or keep them far away until the enemy's bigger, badder things appear, and bring them forward to lay some hurt!

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by dontlookdown

tbh it suits the marines fluff wise anyway. The idea of marines is the strike hard and fast. Rhinos, LR's and drop pods fit the bill perfectly for this imagery. Their playing style fits it too. Marines excel up close, no matter what equipment they have...
If they have the cc and pistol set up then they are close enough to get assaulting and maul the enemy in person, and if they have bolters, they can rapid fire and tear up the enemy with sustained fire. Not to mention you have flamers and meltaguns at disposal. There are squads able to sit back and provide heavy fire support (devastators, vindicator, whirlwind, thunderfire) but the bulk of your force is meant to be getting in to the press as fast as possible.

Drop pods are awesome if you combine it with a couple of scout squads or a land speeder storm ;D
Or even a bike squad to go speeding forward. Just fit locator beacons (storm already has one)

So the main point of my post was bang on... Only the end part was wrong... 100% really? :

I don't own the BT dex, but space marines play well like that, templars just are even better at it. I wasn't saying marines were better at it than templars, where did you get that from?
Even still marines are pretty good for basic troops in cc, but then you wouldn't equip a tac squad with cc's would you?
If YOU pay attention to what YOU were reading you would realise I am saying marines excel close in, not in CC... with bolters on rapid fire and the fact that a lot of their special weapons are best close in (flamer and meltagun for instance). Which is another option for templars is it not? You have two options, cc fit or bolter fit, either way they are going to want to be within 12 inches so they can reap a heavy toll.
BT's do have scouts, neophytes are scouts... I didn't realise you can't field them as a normal scout squad with their usual rules though.
If BT's can't field any of those items/units, what are the alternative vehicles you CAN field? You say you can field bikes which I also mentioned, but then if you don't have the option of a locator beacon there isn't much point in that... I take it templars don't have access to the same wargear list as normal marines. Kinda lame for drop pod assaults, but then you get crusaders as dedicated transports. Both styles fit the imagery of marines well. I guess templar's just don't excel at deep striking, which is one of the best ways to play standard marines.

I was using the heavy support for marines as an example of what kind of troops are designed to stay back and provide support.. if templars can't take any of those, take the long range alternatives they DO have... vindicators. You seem to have completely missed the entire point of what I was saying.... GET IN CLOSE WITH THE BULK OF YOUR TROOPS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.