[rotwiler]

So i am currently playing against alot of space marine armies with my necrons and chaos marines but i went against this 1 player and just got destroyed. He has kalvin strike( know wrong spelling) and a librarian in the same squad with 10 terminators. He used kalvin's special rule to give 1 squad infiltrate and he gave it to the terminator squad that "already had a librarian in it" as he puts it. So he had a squad of 10 terminators, kalvin, and a librarian all infiltrating. How exactly would the rules put this? It says that if a independent character that doesn't have a special rule joins a squad that does( such as infiltrate) then the squad loses the special rule, but with kalvin' special rule it says the whole squad gains infiltrate. Is it legal to put the librarian in the squad so he is part of the squad and then put in kalvin so the librarian gains infiltrate? Trying to find out if it is legal since he turn 1 assaulted and killed a squad of necron warriors, turn 2 killed a squad of destroyers, and turn 3 killed my second squad of warriors causing me to phase out on turn 3, and yes turn 1 assault is possible since kalvin gives whole army fleet and we use alot of terrain so no LOS isn't a problem.

[Skarbrand]

Yes, yes he can do it, as much as i hate myself to say he can. Codex overwrites the Rulebook. if that wasn't the case than lots of army special rules wouldn't be able to be used. Good luck killing them though you'll need it.

Thanks Skarbrand

[rotwiler]

Well this is going to be fun....guess it's time to bring out the Khorn lord w/ daemon weapon ( up to 15 attacks with a power weapon for himself) and maybe a squad of terminators with lightning claws to combat this new threat. Necrons are out of the question :P

[Arschbombe]

I say he was wrong. Shrike can grant infiltrate to a squad. But the infiltrate rule is lost by a unit when joined by an IC that doesn't have it. So by joining the librarian to the terminators, the terminators must lose the infiltrate ability they just got from Shrike.

[crazyguy832]

Arschbombe is correct.

Independent characters may start the game joined to a squad, but they do not form a complete unit. They're two seperate units that are merely joined together.

[rotwiler]

Originally Posted by crazyguy832

Arschbombe is correct.

Independent characters may start the game joined to a squad, but they do not form a complete unit. They're two seperate units that are merely joined together.

Thats what i told them, then they all agreed that since the librarian is already in the squad and not joining it then he gets kalvin's special rule.....god i hate rules like these

[crazyguy832]

...

No.

That's wrong.

[Arschbombe]

Originally Posted by rotwiler

Thats what i told them, then they all agreed that since the librarian is already in the squad and not joining it then he gets kalvin's special rule.....god i hate rules like these

It doesn't matter if the IC starts with the unit or joins them during a turn. The rules don't change for the special rules like infiltrate and fleet. They don't transfer from unit to IC or from IC to unit. Shrike is an exception because of his rules in the SM codex. But even he can't give infiltrate to a squad in order to have that squad give it to another IC.

[HijiriOni]

Its only correct if the librarian was an upgrade character, like that Scout hero guy, but a Libby isn't and can seperate anytime.

By that Logic you could Join calgar to a tactical squad and give him infiltrate through shrike...which is worse Calgar+Infiltrate or a Librarian?

[rotwiler]

....*chills*, a honor guard squad with calgar that infiltrates with shrike, and i thought calgar with honor guards in a land raider would be bad but OUTCH. Either way, problem solved, we took out the rules for 40k general and the codex and explained to him y he couldn't infiltrate the librarian.