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Black Templar / Storm Shields
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 19:15   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Black Templar / Storm Shields

I think I already know the answer to this one, but given the quirkiness of 4th Edition and mixed armor saves in regards to invulnerable, I'd like to poll the audience.

Currently, Black Templar Assault Squads have a rare ability to carry Storm Shields in exchange for their pistol. This confers one 4+ invulnerable save in hand to hand per model equipped. The way it worked in 3rd Edition is when the assault squad was attacked by a power weapon/fist/monstrous creature, you could elect to use each of the Storm Shielded Assault Marines and take a wound on the chance of saving it with a 4+ invulnerable.

This was great when you didn't want to automatically lose 3 - 4 assault marines to a Hive Tyrant or whatever.
However, with the way I understand mixed armor saves to work, unless that save is in the majority, you can't elect to take the Storm Shield save whenever. This greatly reduces the effectiveness of the upgrade since I'd have to now wait till the 2 Storm Shield guys in my squad become the majority, and that's no good.

Could anyone clarify this for me?

-SaturN
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 21:29   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

I believe it is still based on the base model save. So if you have a majority on +3 sv armor. Those models are removed for wounds. Then you save btw, those model have Storm Shields and will attempt to save. If you fail 3 saves then three of the four models having Storm shields need to be removed.

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Old 17 Jun 2005, 21:33   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

You do use in majority. But if I'm correct, then that means type also. You can choose to use armor or invulnarable save, whether or not the majority have an invulnarable save. But it's whether it's 4+ or %= and so on that is determined by majority. I think...
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 23:55   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

Majority armour saves....I believe they ahve a very good exlination of this in the BGB, I'll have to look it up again. There are some problems that come out of it but I agree, the storm sheilds in this case are probably going to be grealty reduced. There is something nibblingat the back of my mind about it though. Gotta check it out later
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Old 18 Jun 2005, 07:01   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

Maybe they'll give the Storm Shield option a new name, but still have it grant a 4+ Inv save. Then they will probably state it in our codex if its changed, especially if its only allowed for BT to take with the inv save coming when you want. This would also save points by only having to equip 2 of 5 out of a squad of terminators, with SS to have (4) 4+ Inv saves and only (1) 5+ Inv save. With the points you save, that is if they cause us to purchase Vow's. so if all that happens, we have our points to pay the vow cost. If the Payment for the Vow's exceeds the 20 points saved on the (2) SS, it should close to enough.

But on the other hand this is an endless debate anyways, as it is not even mentioned in 4th ed. rules, or any GW "thing".

So, go figure. :P
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 01:49   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

As i recall it specifically states in the mixed armor section that as long as all the models have the same armour save in the majority you can allocate the wounds to a model with an invulnerable save. Err that sems a little confusing to me but i think you guys'll get the jest of it.
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Old 26 Jun 2005, 01:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

IF YOU CHOOSE, you can allocate those wounds to models that do not have invulnerable saves and they just die, or you can choose to risk losing models and taking those invulns, but the casualties must be those with invul. save.
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Old 27 Jun 2005, 04:46   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templar / Storm Shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by VV1LD
IF YOU CHOOSE, you can allocate those wounds to models that do not have invulnerable saves and they just die, or you can choose to risk losing models and taking those invulns, but the casualties must be those with invul. save.
That's what I thought. Since *technically* they are still part of the majority save, with just a specific wargear option. I played in a RTT this weekend, and my other fellow Brother Templar in arms agreed to this train of thought. (3 of us out of 30 players)

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