[eternaldream]

I'm going to be starting up a Space Wolves army soon. My army is going to be completely Drop Pod based, with every unit arriving in one. The most recent codex is a 3rd edition one, but there is 5th edition errata on GW.com to clarify a few rules. I assume it's still playable, right? Anyway, here is my question.

True Grit allows you to use a Bolter one handed, so it counts as a pistol in CC. However you don't get your normal +1A from charging. However, it accomplishes the same thing since you will get 2A on the charge anyway. But you will also have 2A for the rest of combat.

Now, all Space Wolves except Long Fangs have the Counter Attack rule, right? This says that when assaulted, they act as if they assaulted too so they get +1A. Is this separate from the True Grit rule, meaning each would have 3A if they got charged (1A+1 from 2 CC weapons, +1 from Counter Attack)? The wording is a bit ambiguous, and I haven't seen any clarifications on this in the errata or elsewhere.

[Droids_Rule]

Oh, yes, Space Wolves are still playable. The lucky puppies got a FAQ that basically says 'use the 5th ed Space Marine codex' for any of the out of date models, so you're in pretty good shape in regards to Drop Pods and other tanks! It's a lot more than can be said for the other SM chapters.

I would rule that, no, they do not get the extra attack. Basically, if Counter-Attack says that the models are treated as if THEY had made a charge, than it makes RAW sense to me that any limitations (or bonuses) from charging would apply.

The leads to an interesting point though. If all of the effects of charging would apply, would that mean that bonuses, like, say, the +2-for-charging that Blood Claws have, would also apply? Intriguing...

I may be wrong, unfortunately, as this is going only on what is in your post as I am away from both my codex and my rulebook and I can't trust my photographic memory of the rulebook ALL of the time. :P

[crazyguy832]

The rulebook specifically states that units with counter-charge receive +1 attacks as if they were charging. The unit is not counted as charging, they simply receive the bonus attack. As true grit negates this, you don't get an extra attack for being charged.

[HijiriOni]

I don't know...If it "counted as a charge" then models with Furious Charge would get that during the counter-attack...but last I recall they don't.

Course I to don't think they should...but the way things are written in regards to this seem a bit sketchy...like many other rules...

[crazyguy832]

They don't count as charging...

all models in the unit get the +1 assault bonus to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn

They don't count as charging, they merely get the bonus attack. The book is very clear that the only bonus is the "+1 assault bonus," it merely goes on to clarify what they mean by this afterwards.

[Droids_Rule]

But it says 'EXACTLY as if they had assaulted that turn.' That seems a bit specific to me. ???

[eternaldream]

Okay, thanks for the replies. Too bad it doesn't work that way. They still seem pretty tough though.

[crazyguy832]

Originally Posted by Droids_Rule

But it says 'EXACTLY as if they had assaulted that turn.' That seems a bit specific to me. ???

Yeah... it's so you don't suddenly get an extra attack from true grit. I think GW may have actually of thought that one through, ya know.

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[Reborners]

You use the 5th ed rules for counterattack.

[Extartius]

They are using the 5th ed rules for counter attack. As crazyguy832 says the rule is very specific in that you only get the +1A as if you had assaulted. What it doesn't say is that you count as charging in all regards, so I'd takle issue with furious charge bonuses and the like. Blood Claws I'm not so sure about, their +2 when charging might be acceptable...