[Sardis Varrn]

Recently one of my regular opponents has told me he wants to start having a go at some more competitive gaming (IE tournaments), and since I haven't played competitively for a long time I thought that I would join him! My problem is the list's I keep thinking up (1750pts) are usually lacking in scoring units or anti-tank capability, and as scoring units are vital in 5th ed I tend to spend more points on my troops. For normal games I usually run a 10 man Devastator squad with 4x missile launchers but these are for larger games and are not that cheap. The Devastator squad I use is fairly flexable but for 10pts more (and an extra HS slot) I can get 2 Predators with Autocannons and sponson Lascannons, these put out far better anti-tank fire and are generally better against MC and heavy infantry. So what I want to know is what sort of AT units you guys/gals use in a tournament list and why?

[Ninja Ork]

Most reliable anti tank is not your long-ranged stuff (and especially not Devastators). Get some Meltabombs on an assault squad, or meltaweapons on something that deep strikes.

[warriorchris]

WIth my standard marines.. i like to get close.. so this means that melta guns and krak grenades and power fists are the order of the day. However.. with the nw (Ish)'dex out tactical squads are able to have multi meltas as a heavy weapon.. i would suggest getting a few of them..

With my Chaos i find that a bike squad with meltas are good, they have the speed to get near quick and the power to get out well. Perhaps consider an attack bike with multi melta to go with these?

Other than that i would recommend a vindicator to progress with your tactical squads, this means that you have a mega cannon with the same range as a bolter, so anything that comes within range you can light it up, no matter what it is..

Hope i helped.

[Sardis Varrn]

I always use an assault squad and their krak grenades/melta bombs are very useful, the problem is that they are usually busy taking down infantry squads by using their flamers and assaulting. Thanks for the input, would you suggest taking a second assault squad in a 1750pt list? The problem again with taking a second assault squad is that it also costs the same as 2 Predators with Autocannons and sponson Lascannons. How durable do you think that tanks are in 5th ed compared to a 10 man marine squad?

edit- The problem with multi-melta's in tactical squads is their poor range, not many people are going to be nice enough to move their tank to within 12" of it! Bikes are a good idea though, I will have a look at them.

[Ninja Ork]

Not very durable. 5th ed is essentially "you destroy what you point at", favouring rush tactics to do as much damage to the opponent in one turn as possible. Your best option for "durability" is simply "fire mitigation". Saturate the field with one type of target, either infantry so their AT weapons are wasted, or vehicles so their small arms fire is wasted.

Regardless, since it's a rush to deal lots of damage in one turn, Assault Squads are far better at that than your predators. They also have the ability to pop one tank or one infantry squad per turn, meaning that they will always have a legitimate target. I heavily suggest taking another squad of them.

[Sardis Varrn]

I do like my assault squads and always do take 2 in higher point games. If I do decide to take a second squad what would you suggest for giving me a little more range, at the moment I have a lascannon and missile launcher (in my tactical squads) and I won't always want to rush my opponent as orks hurt and melta bombs do nothing against MC.

EDIT- The other armour that I will be using will probably be 2 Razorbacks with TL H.bolters. These are cheap expendable fire support units that give me the option of having a mobile wall and for moving my combat squads around if needed!

[Ninja Ork]

You typically don't need a range longer than 24". Orks hurt, which is why you destroy them in one turn using a rush with flamers. Like I said, 5th ed is a game of "you destroy what you point at". If your army is incapable of that, it is typically not competitive. Meltabombs do nothing against MCs, but Thunderhammer terminators do (and are the most reliable/quickest way).

[Sardis Varrn]

I have thought about using assault terminators as they are a fairly reasonable price, I just wasn't to sure how competitive they would be in a take all comers list since they won't have a transport. I have seen games where they shine and others where they struggle as they can't get into combat or get bogged down by hordes.

[warriorchris]

Once again as i said elsewere.. Assault termies are a one trick pony.. They work well at ripping appart one squad in combat but after that you can wave bye bye. The enemy will shoot everything and anything into them while moving away to keep them out of combat..

As for melta's... A multi melta has a range of 24" which means they can keep up with a bolter squad and fire every other turn... Melta guns on the other hand.. If you put them in an assault squad then you have some nice mobile anti tank.. perhaps consider getting a razor back for a tac squad with a las cannon on it?

[Sardis Varrn]

Originally Posted by Chris the Original

Once again as i said elsewere.. Assault termies are a one trick pony.. They work well at ripping appart one squad in combat but after that you can wave bye bye. The enemy will shoot everything and anything into them while moving away to keep them out of combat..

As for melta's... A multi melta has a range of 24" which means they can keep up with a bolter squad and fire every other turn... Melta guns on the other hand.. If you put them in an assault squad then you have some nice mobile anti tank.. perhaps consider getting a razor back for a tac squad with a las cannon on it?

1. When I said 12" for the multi-melta what I meant was that at that range it is a great weapon, at longer range a missile launcher is just as good (except not AP1), has a longer range and can take on hordes with its frag rounds!

2. Assault squads can't take melta guns, just flamers and plasma pistols.

3. I really don't like upgrading razorbacks, by upgrading them you are nearly doubling its points and it is still only a AV11 vehicle but now with a big "SHOOT ME" sign on it!