[Celebrim]

I'm getting back into the game and looking to start a Space Marine army specifically. Looking at their makeup, a battle company consists of 6 Tactical, 2 Assault, 2 Devastator and making a traditionally 100-man company.

The new codex seems to reward 10-man tactical squads. My first question in the case of a 10-man squad with a Rhino transport is: where does the Rhino driver fit in the hierarchy?

In a more general sense, from which marine type do vehicle drivers traditionally come? Are assault marines used for bikes? Speeders? Are devastators used to drive Vinidcators?

This is mainly a fluff question, as it will only really affect which squad markings I paint on the various vehicles, but I was wondering if there is any source material that addresses this.

[Koll]

My sources to answer this are the SM 3rd edition codex which has a two page spread showing the full Ultramarines chapter represented in model form, and the 2nd, and 3rd edition BA Codex's which describe the squad markings of the Blood Angels.

Bikers, and Land Speeder crews have their helmets painted Yellow for the Blood Angels showing they're assault squad troopers. However when comparing the 3rd edition pic of the Ultramarines chapter to the accompanying chapter layout on paper the drivers and gunners of all the vehicles do not appear to be counted along with the rest of the chapter. Land Speeders and Bikes are listed seperately from the companies respective assault squads and a notation is made stating that all listed vehicles include a full crew.

So I would guess they're extra marines not in the normal squad organisation. If this is the case then along with the HQ portion of the chapter the number of marines would be closer to 1100-1150 in a chapter than 1000. This is not counting the chapter HQ, Apothecarium, Fleet Command, Armoury, Librarius, and Administrative structure which in the Ultramarines collectively includes almost 500 extra personnel, only 206 of whom are specifically listed as "non-space marine" and 103 are listed as servitors.

Of course drivers and gunners could be brought from other currently non combat active squads across the company/chapter to support operations rather than being seperate marines who specialise in driving/gunning of vehicles full time. The Codex however seems to state that they are a specialised bunch of marines who are simply listed as being part of their respective vehicles rather than as standard marines.

Ultimately it would seem that for visible marines like Bike and LS pilots/gunners you would represent them as being assault marines, however for tanks you would show squad/company/chapter markings on the vehicle, but the crew are a non-entity as far as having to incorporate them into your wider chapter structure markings wise. The Ultramarines image shows every tactical squad as having a squad Rhino with tactical markings and the squad/company markings, and every Devastator squad has its own Rhino with devastator squad markings and squad/company markings. Every Assault Squad also has a Rhino with assault squad symbols and squad/company markings.

There are also 12 Land Raiders listed as Ultramarine property, however only 10 are pictured, and all are marked with the Number of the first company and the ultramarines symbol, but no visible squad markings. These are apparently seperate, and assigned as needed perhaps?

Anyway I hope you can draw some inspiration for your chapter vehicles markings from this, sorry I couldn't give you a straight answer one way or the other about how vehicle crews are marked up. If I were to guess I would say drivers and gunners are all assault marines as in the case of Land Speeders both the gunner and the driver are shown as assault marines as with attack bikes.

Remember also that Whirlwinds, Predators, Rhino's, and Land SPeeders also generally have multiple crew. specifically one guy driving and one guy manning the guns.

[Wargamer]

It is generally accepted that the '1000 Space Marines' refers to active Battle Brothers. As such, the vehicle crews (who are most likely seconded to the Armoury or motor pool) do not count toward the tally.

It is worth noting that Land Speeders are specifically crewed by Assault Marines.

[Aun]

My Exorcists use Servitors and Cogitators to drive Rhinos, as it would be a wast of a space marine's potential for him to do nothing but taxi people around when a servitor could get the job done.
But the crew for most vehicles come form the reserve companies if I am not mistaken, while Land Speeder crews and Bikers are formed from Assault Squad members.

[Mana-Valkyrie]

The other thing to consider is that according to most of the background fluff with a few exceptions, vehicles are not assigned to specific companies in set numbers, but issued to those companies as required for operations/campaigns. Exceptions are units like the ravenwing which is an all motorized company.

[Aun]

I'm jut thinking outside the box here, but perhaps some of them are crewed by Scouts. They have to learn how to drive at some point...
(Imagines 'Student Driver' slapped on the back of a Predator)...that would be fun...

[Koll]

See the thing is if i'm taking 10 of the finest well kitted genetically advanced supersoldiers the human race has ever seen, and then putting them inside a tin can and sending them into a warzone filled most likely with enemies who are armed with technology who are even more badass i'm not going to have the afforementioned tin can driven by a rookie scout or a mindless servitor.

I'm going to want another genetically engineered superhuman who has spent a hundred years behind the wheel and can navigate dangerous terrain and drive fearlessly into the fray with amazing skill and a gunner who can take out moving armoured targets with a pintle mounted stormbolter from a moving armoured target whilst all hell is breaking out around him.

The short version: If it's my chapter I want spacemarines who are specialised in manning vehicles, I don't want scouts, or servitors or admin staff behind the wheel. They can paint themselves up as assault marines if they want, but they're damn well going to be skilled specialised vehicle crew through and through and they're going to have armour so they don't get killed by stray rounds or bad bumps/crashes and they're going to have genetically enhanced reflexes, and vision.

[Aun]

Well, its your chapter, so you can make any decision you want. I just feel that having space marines crew vehicles like a Rhino is a gross miss use of manpower.

Anyone, even a Servitor can drive a Rhino, but only a Space Marine can...well, be a Space Marine

[Koll]

Then again putting the lives of 10 space marines into the hands of a single servitor could also be considered pretty irresponsible. If I want my stereo fixed i'll call a servitor, if I want 1% of my chapters strength entrusted to someone then i'm not going to be stopping by the vehicle repair depot.

Of course this is all fluff so ultimately will have zero impact on anything or anyone, but in the real world you don't put the SAS into a chinook flown by a civilian flying instructor, you get a skilled pilot from the RAF. It's really an investment of skill to pretty an even greater investment of skill.

Besides which the Rhino is a battlefield asset so a space marine driver is still fulfilling a key military role just as important as the 10 other marines who are about to jump out the back and go kill things, it's just more of a supporting specialisation.

I'd hardly say it was different from thuderhawk pilots who are also Space Marines (As shown on the FW model) or the pilots of a Storm pattern Land Speeder who are also marines, both of which are used as transport vehicles.

[Aun]

A Servitor would be more capable of driving the machine than any space marine do to the fact they ARE the machine. The Servitor would be able to react faster than any outside source and internet battlefield data far faster than any crew member could and would function in the same manor as a Land Raiders machine spirit.

I don't know why you would think a Servitor hard wired into the machine would perform less efficiently than a space marine crew member.

but in the real world you don't put the SAS into a chinook flown by a civilian flying instructor, you get a skilled pilot from the RAF. It's really an investment of skill to pretty an even greater investment of skill.

Or, you could have the chinook fly itself using an advanced computer system.