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Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)
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Old 22 Jul 2007, 22:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

Ok so I got Fulgrim earlier this week, the latest in the Horus Heresy series and I devoured it in just a couple of days. As pleased as I was with the book there was one passage, one page that really gave me pause, not for it's importance in the immediate story of the text but in it's possible insights into the other books. If you have not yet read Fulgrim and do not want to read the spoiler (though minor it may be and already known if you read the other books) then read no further.

The passage I am talking about is from page 429 and I quote:
'And Ancient Rylanor?" asked Eidolon, leading him further along the Gallery of Swords to the entrance of the apothecarion.
'I don't know for sure about that,' said Lucius. 'After the bombing, he took himself off into the depths of the Precentor's Palace. I never saw him again.'
'Not like Rylanor to run from a fight,' noted Eidolon, turning a corner and marching down a parchment lined corridor that led to the grand staircase of the ship's central apothecarion.
'No,' agreed Lucius, 'though Tarvitz did say something about him gaurding something.'
'Guarding what?'
'He didn't say. Rumour was he'd found some kind of underground hangar, but if that were the case, then why didn't Praal use it to escape when the Legion's arrived?'
'True,' agreed Eidolon. 'It is in the nature of the coward to flee rather than fight. Well, no matter, whatever Rylanor's purpose, it is irrelevant, for he is buried beneath thousands of tons of radioactive slag.'

Now maybe it's just me but doesn't that strike everyone as a huge sign by GW saying "Tarvitz may well be alive! wink, wink, nudge, nudge."

I mean it does seem odd to be so directly said, and to be so minor a detail but the fact is that there may apparently have been a hangar there, deep undergound and safe from the bombardment, where Tarvitz and his last surviving hundred marines could have escaped to.

Does anyone think GW will pursue that line? It seems entirely possible to me, after all GW put it in there rather... bluntly. Everyone's been debating on whether Tarvitz and Loken died but here finally is some strong evidence that at least Tarvitz and a hundred or so of his loyalists, along with the Ancient Rylanor survived. At least I like to think so. Any thoughts on the matter? Anyone happy to see such a reference? Or perhaps anyone angry at it?
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Old 23 Jul 2007, 00:08   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

The part about him being buried beneath tons of 'radioactive slag' makes me believe his heart has stopped beating long ago. Though it is plausible that he lives on, possible but doubtful. If I recall correctly, the only character to survive being buried by a multi-ton rock slide of similar magnitude was the Primarch Angron himself.
I don't think Tarvtiz could stomach that kind of punishment.
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Old 23 Jul 2007, 00:30   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
The part about him being buried beneath tons of 'radioactive slag' makes me believe his heart has stopped beating long ago. Though it is plausible that he lives on, possible but doubtful. If I recall correctly, the only character to survive being buried by a multi-ton rock slide of similar magnitude was the Primarch Angron himself.
I don't think Tarvtiz could stomach that kind of punishment.
That's taking the text far too directly. If the hangar was so far underground they would not actually be "burried" as in knocked over and surrounded by slag. Burried as in locked deep underground without an exit. However a hangar such as that probably has a secondary exit or it's primary one follows a deep underground course for many miles before reaching the surface, to circumvent the forces of an attacker if it was really meant as an escape. No Eidolon's comment was to suggest that Rylanor if he was deep underground would suddenly have all his exits to the surface blocked by melted, radioactive slag. Even then it's also not assured as it's just an excusing comment by Eidolon.

The primary point of the text is the bit mentioning a hangar and that Tarvitz knew of it's existence. Which would suggest that as the bombardment was commencing Tarvitz and his last hundred men or so may well have retreated underground to survive the bombardment. If Tarvitz was on the surface he would have been killed long before he had a chance to be literally burried alive, the bombardment turning him to ash and rendering his armor to dust.
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Old 23 Jul 2007, 00:47   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

I understand the possibilities of the situation but not how it would benefit the plot really. If they are indeed trapped yet still alive then they are in a very convenient spot (a hangar, possibly with active vehicles). Are you convinced they could mount an offensive against Warmaster Horus?

I think having Tarvitz survive would be a mistake; he met a very suitable end and Black Library should keep it as such. He probably won't be mentioned simply because characters from other legions will take his place in the limelight as the plot progresses novel by novel and focuses on an entirely new group of Space Marines.
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Old 23 Jul 2007, 01:07   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
I understand the possibilities of the situation but not how it would benefit the plot really. If they are indeed trapped yet still alive then they are in a very convenient spot (a hangar, possibly with active vehicles). Are you convinced they could mount an offensive against Warmaster Horus?
With 100 marines no I do not think so. On the contrary I think that if GW does do something with that plot twist it will be when Captain Sigismund arrives to find the shattered remains of the Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamander, Ferrus dead and Vulkan missing and then goes rushing back to Terra. That would be when GW would reveal the survival of Tarvitz if they choose to do so, that way Tarvitz and his men would be able to be present on Terra when the Emperor choses the 8 marines to found the Grey Knight chapter from.

Quote:
I think having Tarvitz survive would be a mistake; he met a very suitable end and Black Library should keep it as such. He probably won't be mentioned simply because characters from other legions will take his place in the limelight as the plot progresses novel by novel and focuses on an entirely new group of Space Marines.
I agree, it would degrade the victory of Tarvitz and Loken's last stand, but I wouldn't put it past GW.
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Old 23 Jul 2007, 23:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

theres a lot of throghters about the gray kights gene seed and i like the choseing of 666 marines from all of teh loyel marines and giveing it to the kights personaly but your is the right one i belive

gris
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Old 24 Jul 2007, 02:29   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

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Originally Posted by Grismund
theres a lot of throghters about the gray kights gene seed and i like the choseing of 666 marines from all of teh loyel marines and giveing it to the kights personaly but your is the right one i belive

gris
I can barely understand what you just said. Take your time and use the spell check feature and make sure to use decent grammar and spelling in all your posts. This is a warning, please clean up your posts or I will be forced to start smiting you and I would rather not do that.
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Old 24 Jul 2007, 20:45   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Fulgrim, Some Revealing Insights (warning spoilers inside)

Well met!

Vash113. Don't take it to hard out on Grismund. He is doing his very best. This is his normal writting and fully understandable once you get used to it.



Kind Regards
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