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Terminators best role.
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 16:25   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Terminators best role.

I am going to be running a large 10 man terminator squad that accompanies my chaplain, obviously the chalplain gives them some great assault potential but i do not want to lose huge amounts of points because 9 of the eleven models in the squad strike at initiative 1, the possibilites of the squad are

1. buy a librarian give him fear of darkness and deepstrike the whole squad, shoot everything and scare their lines off the table edge
2. buy a librarian two cyclone missile launchers and assault cannon and trudge along shooting like crazy
3. keep the chaplain and just trudge along shooting and hugging cover where possible and finally assault a bunch
4. deepstrike chaplain and assault anything
5. get chainfits galore and deepstrike to tankhunt with tankhunters specail rule

all of these are good but have disadvantages so how would this squad be used best in my 1500 point army.

(if needed i can post the rest of my list)
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 19:03   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

It could work either really well, or horribly. I think ten terminators in a 1500 point match will be a little too much. If you do include ten of them, you better make sure the rest of your army is well balanced for supporting them...because if they die, thats a large portion of your army down.

Which chapter do you play as?
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Old 20 Jul 2007, 21:11   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aose
It could work either really well, or horribly. I think ten terminators in a 1500 point match will be a little too much. If you do include ten of them, you better make sure the rest of your army is well balanced for supporting them...because if they die, thats a large portion of your army down.

Which chapter do you play as?
Hear, hear. Ten Termies in a 1500 point game is excessive. If you're adamant about taking ten, then I recommend breaking them into two squads; this will allow them to turn their considerable firepower on different units as you see fit. A bad scatter can cost you the whole squad before they even so much as glare menacingly at the enemy, so ten men can be a dangerous gamble if you mean to deep strike. If you don't mind being declared Beardy Extremis, you can also field four cheese assault cannons in this manner.

Combining assault cannons with tank hunters is a very effective means of tackling medium armour, and the assault cannon's rending ability can merrily lay waste to the tougher armoured targets with one or two lucky rolls in that handful of dice. However, tank hunters is less useful when combined with chainfists, with which you might as well take furious charge if you really want to take a special skill at all. In my opinion, chainfists are the most criminally overlooked weapon option in the Space Marine army list. For 15 points, the price of a combi-melta for the Sergeant, you could take three chainfists which would roughly equate to nine meltaguns at BS3! To be honest, with that kind of nastiness you hardly need to further upgrade them with a special skill at all!
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 02:30   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

firstly i would like to thank both of you for you replies secondly i would like to apologize for my mistake, in my 1500 point list there are only 5 terminators in the2000 point list there are 10, i think i will field them as meq and medium armor (tank killers) with an assault cannon, two cyclone missile launchers, and two chainfists, and a librarian to lead them??? i really am having trouble with this, but i had another great idea

one squad with a cyclone missile launcher and an assault cannon the other deepstrikes with the librarian that has fear of darkness, scares on the turn they drop in and shoots a bunch then assaults with two chainfists at the nearest tank, makes infantry run away or get shot and chews up tanks... seems like the best of both worlds, one shooting the other charging. I would still love more feedback.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 05:30   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

2000 points would be a bit better, but most people I've seen only field 5 in 2000...but if terminators is going to be the basis of your army I don't see why not.

Again, make sure the rest of your army can counter whatever your terminators cannot.

Oh...are all of these terminators using stormbolters? Sorry, I play DA and I can mix squads, unless of course you're playing DA, then you know what I'm talking about. If you are not playing DA, it might be a good idea to give your deepstrikers melee oriented weapons, and have your shooty squad support the rest of them.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 11:41   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

DON'T DEEPSTRIKE ASSAULT TERMINATORS!!!!!!

Sorry to yell like that, but it is the worst idea you could possibly have with the terminators (well thats legal in the game anyway.... : )

If you deepstrike close combat terminators you may not assault with them the same turn that they deepstrike, giving your opponent the opportunity to either move farther away and shoot them or give him the charge. So under no circumstance are you to deepstrike or drop pod assault terminators. Even with a librarian w/ fear. Even with a chaplain. I don't care if the pope himself decided to deepstrike with them chanting "dominus ominus" the entire way....

Now it sounds more like in a 2000 pt battle you are going to take two units of terminators, and if I'm reading it correctly you will be giving one unit a cyclone and an assault cannon. While the other one will be getting a single cyclone? If I am reading that correctly, what I would do is to put the two cyclones into the same unit and make that a distance based unit. Then with the assault cannon in the second unit run it up the board (maybe look into that second assault cannon whilst they're still legal...) with a more mobile unit.

And if you do decide to get some assault based terminators... look into getting a land raider crusader for transport as it has excellent armor and is one of the few vehicles that can be charged out of. Granted your opponent might be able to destroy it before it becomes any good for you, but you take that risk with literally anything you take....
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 16:39   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howloutloud
DON'T DEEPSTRIKE ASSAULT TERMINATORS!!!!!!
Agreed. It's the worst thing you can possibly do with Assault Termies. Maybe they'd be of worth in a Crusader...but even that's debatable. It's a lot of points you see, for something so limited in its flexibility. Shooty Terminators can destroy a tank with their assault cannons and then turn their attentions to an infantry unit or two and gun them down! Assault Termies will utterly obliterate almost anything upon disembarking from their Crusader, but then what? I can see how they might be effective against static armies, especially those heavily reliant upon their heavy weapons, but anything that can afford to move will just leave your Termies stranded.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 16:46   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howloutloud
DON'T DEEPSTRIKE ASSAULT TERMINATORS!!!!!!
Agreed. It's the worst thing you can possibly do with Assault Termies. Maybe they'd be of worth in a Crusader...but even that's debatable. It's a lot of points you see, for something so limited in its flexibility. Shooty Terminators can destroy a tank with their assault cannons and then turn their attentions to an infantry unit or two and gun them down! Assault Termies will utterly obliterate almost anything upon disembarking from their Crusader, but then what? I can see how they might be effective against static armies, especially those heavily reliant upon their heavy weapons, but anything that can afford to move will just leave your Termies stranded.
just a though, but with proper use of the land raider could you block the LOS of any nearby shooty units so that the termies don't get too badly shot up and can use consolidation along with movement and a charge to reach another target. The LR is big and could be used to either prevent a squad from getting too far away or stop a shooting squad from wiping out the termies. It's just a thought and it would mean that the assault would have to carry over into their assault phase (so no wiping them out on the charge) but you could easily manage that by charging at the right angle so that you can't reach all the models and some are left.
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Old 21 Jul 2007, 18:05   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmblazonedMauveGearbox
just a though, but with proper use of the land raider could you block the LOS of any nearby shooty units so that the termies don't get too badly shot up and can use consolidation along with movement and a charge to reach another target. The LR is big and could be used to either prevent a squad from getting too far away or stop a shooting squad from wiping out the termies. It's just a thought and it would mean that the assault would have to carry over into their assault phase (so no wiping them out on the charge) but you could easily manage that by charging at the right angle so that you can't reach all the models and some are left.
The problem is not the liklihood of your Termies getting wiped out, it's the fact that they can so easily be rendered useless because they haven't the means to inflict harm on any unit more than 12" away. A squad of Terminators is a costly investment and if they serve no purpose beyond the destruction of a single unit, then that unit had better be worth a lot of points in itself or be otherwise critical to your opponent's game plan. Once they've dispensed their brand of mayhem, your assault Termies will be useful only to herd enemy infantry units, and unless those units are disadvantaged by moving, your Termies are essentially accomplishing nothing for you, and are instead merely serving as bite-sized pockets of victory points for your opponent.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 22 Jul 2007, 03:39   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Terminators best role.

The basic idea behind the assault terminators in a land raider crusader is rather simple.

1. Do not mount them in the Land Raider Crusader until your first turn. If your opponent has first turn and blows it up then you don't lose all of your models... Trust me on this one (templar player got a lucky shot with his land speeder's multi-melta on my crusader with a seven man assault termie squad and chaplain, killed all but the chaplain and 2 lightning clawed models. Started the game on my turn with over a 500 pt deficit in a 2000 pt game with me playing pure deathwing 3rd edition)

2. Hide it behind whatever terrain you can so you can at least claim hull down. In the previous example I had hid the crusader behind a building, but my mistake was not taking into account the 12" move of the speeder with the 24" range of the multi-melta (was not within the 12" sweet spot...). Had I put it farther behind the building by 1" it would have been out of the range.

3. The whole idea in mounting the assault terminators in the land raider crusader is to use its movement to full effect. You wouldn't buy a rhino for an assault squad (though why you wouldn't just keep the jetpacks on is beyond me) and not run them full tilt into the enemy. Don't move it 6" a turn. That land raider crusader to be as effective as possible needs to be moving the full 12" a turn, who cares if you can fire or not. If you wanted a land raider for shooting you should have taken a basic one and not even mounted anything in it.
You are basically taking an insanely good assault unit and doubling their movement a turn until they can get into hand to hand. Add to that the only way they can get frag grenades is from the launcher at the front of the crusader and you have a very effective unit. Throwing in the chaplain is just an insult to the enemy.... Hmmm.... I have 28 power weapon attacks at a decent initiative (5 because you took furious charge, right?), a good strength, I can reroll to hit and I reroll to wound.... wait I forgot the 5-6 attacks from the chaplain.... Ohhh and in case you somehow where able to miraculously stand up to that (only thing I can think of is something with toughness 9...) I'm fearless, so you won't be chasing me off.
Now take that nasty assault unit and make them walk 6" a turn. Not so nasty when you can't catch me. Thats why we grab the plunger and stuff them into that crusader... just try to get that image out of your head....
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