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Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?
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Old 30 Jun 2007, 20:42   #1 (permalink)
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Default Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

Yes, the Blood Angels rock!

Everything that made the new Dark Angels amazing, the Blood Angels have too. This groovy new layout has been carried over, and yet again we're seeing the flaws of the Vanilla Codex corrected.

Now, to give some assurances, and possibly confirm some fears...
  • All the gubbins (Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades) are as per Dark Angels; this is apparantly the standard loadout now. And yes, they still get the grenades free of charge.
  • All units, with the exception of Death Company, have lost Black Rage and Red Thirst. Many units have gained Combat Squads, however.
  • Scouts are Elites. Their Shotguns are Str 4. This leads me to conclude that all Shotguns are getting this boost. Frankly, they need it!
  • Death Company cost 30pts per model. They are Fearless, have Feel No Pain, Furious Charge, and Black Rage (Rending).
  • Every squad that generates Rending has the cost of 1 Death Company built in (ie: Tac squads are 30pts more than they should be). You don't have to take a Death Company Marine, but you have to pay for them.
  • You can pay +30pts to add a Death Company Marine to your Death Company, providing your total does not exceed 10. To get higher than that, you'll need over 10 squads that generate Death Company!
  • Terminator Squads are 5-man, and only get one Heavy Weapon.
  • Dreadnoughts are still 20pts more than Vanilla, and all Dreadnoughts are Elites. There is apparantly no limit on the number of Venerable Dreadnoughts. Oh, and you can have Venerable Furioso.
  • Yes, Blood Angels pay through the nose for Assault Cannons as well.
  • Assault Squads are Troops.
  • There are no Veteran Squads; only Terminators and Veteran Assault Squads. Honour Guard may be on foot or have Jetpacks.
  • Honour Guard have "in squad" Techmarines; the Tech Adept.
  • Honour Guard, like Dark Angels Command Squads, don't have to be led by the character you bought them for.
  • The Blood Angels Whirlwind has "Incendary Castellan" Missiles, just like the Dark Angels.
  • Despite the engine soup-up, the Rhino is still 10 points cheaper than the Vanilla Counterpart. The Razorback costs as much as a Vanilla Rhino.
  • Bikes operate in squads of 3 or 5. Attack Bike Squadrons are 1-3. Land speeders operate in Squadrons of 1-3, one of which may be a Typhoon, up to two may be Tornadoes.
  • Company Captains, etc. are not Fearless as per Dark Angels. You may have Captains in Terminator Armour.
  • Yes, you can still take a Pistol, a main gun and a pair of Lightning Claws.
  • Master Crafted gear is still reserved for Special Characters only. Those who cried about this with the Dark Angels, tough!
  • There is only one Sanguinary High Priest; Brother Corbulo. Likewise, there is no "Master of Sanctity" or "Chief Librarian" entries; they are covered by Lemartes and Mephiston respectively.
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Old 30 Jun 2007, 21:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

What I'm not a fan of is that it still seems like games against BA will be a matter of stopping the DC. I still think they should've just made em a retinue option for the chappy and given them the option to buy a couple power fists/weapons. They're still prettty much a must have since you actually pay the pts for them. The cap on their numbers is good as is the fact that the player will know how many models he needs before the game.

I'm also a lil bothered by some of the special characters. Lemartes seems like a real no brainer choice now, and Mephiston is rather cheap for what he does although a dreadnought will likely insta-jib him without an invulnerable, so at least he has a weakness.

But to be honest, at least they've ironed out some of the nonsense with the las/plas units and the dirt cheap asscannon spamming. And that's BIG in my books. I personally liked the DA update better (largely due to the lack of DC), but they could've done much worse *shudders in memory of the old kraftworld lists and the soon to be extinct 9 obie pie plate brigade*.
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 05:44   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

Personally, I plan to abuse the cheap rhinos. The buggers just aren't bad for the price, regardless of if you plan to actually ride in them. =)

Time to buy a lot of red paint....
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 06:08   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

The rules themselves aren't bad, they could have been much worse.

But I'm still pissed at the direction GW is going. Though at this point I really shouldn't be surprised I suppose. Still time to spam a very assault marine heavy force, just for the sheer amusement factor.
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 08:50   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

I'm curious, vash, what is it about their direction that pisses you off? As far as I can tell, they're going away from Codex-Creeping and Powergaming. How is that a bad thing?
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 12:37   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

special character creap?

Me personally I don't care, but I'm tempted to field mepheston and just kick some serious...........

anyways, special characters aside, the DA and BA codex's seem balanced and fun to use, I havn't even been tempted to do trait marines, and chaos seems to be going in this same vein (I left eldar out because people always cry about them, I find them balanced but also over-powered at the same time so (shrugs))
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 16:21   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

Personally, I dislike the following things about the DA codex (and thusly the BA codex):
- Layout. You may like it, I think it blows chunks. I thought that 40k was supposed to be distinct from Fantasy in space. Apparently JJ disagrees... But other than that, it's convoluted, hard to read and so much less convenient than the old codex.

- Combat Squads. This is an idiotic concept, forcing squad sizes. I don't care if it was in first or second edition. I like my old squad sizes. And forcing us to buy 10 models for a heavy weapon? It seems like this is just an attempt to force us to buy more models, which is another reason why I'm starting to really dislike JJ.

- No more armoury. Were sergeants with combi-weapons or storm bolters really all that cheesy? Was an auspex game-breaking? What ever happened to master crafting? Teleport homers? The lack of an armoury really takes away character from the army and especially sergeants.

- Equipment cost. It's entirely backwards to make the equipment the old cost. Power fists should not be that expensive, nor should power weapons. Plus, we've got an increase of Lascannons and plasma guns (a 50% increase!). Despite what you say, Las/Plas squads were not game breaking, effective as they were.


Basically, they're putting a stranglehold on my choices, and I hate that. Most people do. In fact, in many cases, a person will refuse to do something solely because they weren't given a choice, even when they may have done it if they were not forced.

Now, I was happy with the Eldar codex. It was well-written and characterful. It fixed the Starcannon and introduced some factors which balance the Eldar, giving them new options. The only real complaint I have is the layout, which is confusing at best. However, JJ didn't stick his grimy little hands into it. Personally, I think that he's taking Marines down a road which they already traveled, reversing the betterments that they have received.

That is why I really hope that JJ stays away from my Marines, because if he writes a codex for them... Well, my marines won't see any more action, which I truly hope will not happen. I've put a lot of work into my Marines. Space Marines were my first army. I learned how to play using them, I learned how to do well with them, I learned how to model with them, I learned how to paint with them. And when some chode named Jervis comes along and says, "Hey, you know your favorite army? Can't use them like that anymore! Hahah!" you can understand why I am irate.

Oh, and just so everybody knows, I've got nothing against JJ personally. I just think he's absolutely horrid at writing rules.
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 17:15   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

Pretty much Wargamer my reasons for disliking the road GW is going down are pretty much the same as what Abael said, with one further tidbit.

Hero Hammer. The Dark Angels and Blood Angels rules make it pretty clear that GW really wants players buying those expencive special characters and to do that they made their rules rediculous. The rules for Dante, Lemartes and Mephiston are absolutely rediculous, they make the standard options look pointless by comparison, which means to be competetive I'm stuck with stock equipped characters that aren't my own creation and that sucks, that really sucks.

The Dark Angels did the same thing, forcing the Special Characters on us. Even more than that the standard characters got all around more offencive and less defencive. It's frustrating to see the game return to something I really didn't like the first time and that I doubt will be any better the second go around. I don't know why Games Workshop and JJ are so insistent on returning Marines to their 2nd Edition selves, this backwards slide is dissapointing in the extreme.

Yes the rules can be won with, yes they may be balanced. But do I like them? No. Do I think they accurately represent Blood Angels? No. Do I think they do the Blood Angels justice? No, not really.

The rules may be balanced and powerful, but so much about them makes no sense (SCOUTS AS ELITES!!!!). For instance Scouts as Elites, what is up with that? There is nothing about Scouts that makes them as useful as an Elites choice. Their weaponry is largely second rate and much of what they are good for is cheap bodies and guns, or an infiltrating power fist and teleport homer. If this same change happens to Vanilla Marines I have 40+ scouts that are going to hit the shelf and stay there for good. The cost changes don't make much sense and don't show much tact. Simply making what was popular more expencive and what was not popular cheaper. That doesn't fix things, it just forces change. It's that lack of thought in the updates that gets to me more than anything else.

JJ may not be the sole individual responsible, but his attitude I find stunning and insulting and the way GW is going about these updates looks like it's just going to take the hobby into a nose dive. I like the hobby, I have a lot of armies, I don't want to see my armies changed for the worse because some staffers at GW think it's neat.

[/rant]
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 17:25   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Yes, the Blood Angels rock!

Did I read that correctly?

Wargamer Is pleased with something GW has done?!?!?



Having said that I do have the rules as well. I am not too sure on the layout though I'm sure that given time it may well grow on me.


I have had a flick through and I do like how they have stopped min/maxing, Terminators are only available in squads of 5, though really that's all you need. Black Company, It is more structured how it works, you don't get random models, which will probably please people and piss of others.

Overall It's a good balanced codex, but the layout and some other things are a bit dissapointing IMO.
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Old 01 Jul 2007, 17:44   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels; who else has these rocking new rules?

I was pretty happy with them. They are meant to represent a specific chapter, one that fights in a particular way and is led by known characters. It was not meant to be a template for generic assault chapters". Blood Angels are not meant to have the same firepower options that some chapters can field, and the Dark Angels have very particular views about how squads should be equipped and maintained. That is what the rules enforce, along with making Marines harder to cheese up. If you don't want the penalties, you really can't ask for the bonuses. I would much rather see the sort of changes that Jervis is making than the overly-balanced tweaks that the Tau got in the last round.

I really liked the inclusion of both the assault squad and the veteran assault squad.
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