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Considering playing Dark Angels
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 06:15   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Considering playing Dark Angels

Well when i was at my local GW this afternoon i picked up the SM battleforce as i needed a break from my tau for a little while.

I have been reading through the dark angels codex and i like some of the fluff but i was wondering what you guys think of them playwise?

a lot of people told me that i should stay away from them and told me bad things. but these were people that haven't actually played them and only heard about them.

so any opinions/advice would be grateful.

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Old 20 Jun 2007, 06:48   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

I play Dark Angels and I love 'em, but painting dark green gets to after awhile.

Thier HQ's are 'weaker' but that seems to be the trend for GW (autarch isn't all that stong weither) but the special characters are pretty decient, and lack of master crafting does hurt (only if you suck at rolling to hit)

Elites, well deathwing are okay, vanilla get a stronger option because of the two heavy weapons, but first turn deep stricks, plus having say a cyclone missile laucher (to threaten tanks) in a assault termie squad is pretty mean.
Dreads are more expensive base then the vanilla counterparts, mainly cause of the assault cannon, I'm unsure about the upgrades (weapons) for it and how they are priced, but dreads are fairly solid in less anti tank environments.
Veterans are golden, seriously, with built in termie honors and the ability to take upto three power weapons/fists or thunder hammers, plus being able to take a special and heavy weapon and split the squad (granted this will cost you a butload) is very nice.
scouts are scouts, but now elites.......dont use them, and wouldn't even if they were troops

Troops.....well tactical marines are just that, ok the cost for veteran options went up, but those veterans with powerfists and three attacks (four on the charge) have saved many a combat for me, plus shooting pistols before charging in is very nice

fast attack
assault squads seem toned down now, but they still seem to do okay, i mean they are marines that can go fast and can assault, not a squad decked out with power weapons or rending claws.......(shrugs)
ravenwing attack squads are nice, I love them personally, the scout move and teleport homweres make for a nice 'doublewing' army, but they can do damage quickly (with meltaguns or plasma guns) plus attack bikes with multi meltas are very nice.
land spededers are very toned down from codex marines, still I love htem, but they are harder to use hten thier codex counterparts......still very fun

heavy support
preads come out cheaper then the condex counterparts, unless you want all lascannons.....but the heavy bolter lascannon setup works for me
whirlwinds........ok eldar players with rangers annoy me (that why i have some in my eldar army), now they will die very easily to your whirlwinds that can ignore cover, they loose the land mine option but hey, catachans will roast very quickly to these missiles ;D
devs are good, with combat squads you can now multi task your dev squads and not worry about wasting shots each turn, this is a good thing
i dont use the other heavy support options, but deathwing armies that want to use the deathwing command squad (with apothicaries) have to use the land raider crusaider.....the only way to gwet them all to fit (if oyu join beliel to them of coarse)

All in all, not a power gamer army, but still I rekon very fun to play with
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 14:00   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

Thats ia a very nice, fair, and accurate assessment. I Play Deathwing with an attachment of raven wing, and am slowing building into a full DA force. They aren't perfect, but the are a good, fun, and very tactially flexible army. I'd take them over my vanilla marines any day.
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 17:00   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

Actually if your interested, I am in the middle of writing a rather large Death Wing Tactica. By rather large, I mean I'm on page 3 and have only covered elites and HQ's. When I do get done I plan on posting on this forum... I might then do a tactica for general Dark Angels... though most of my experience is with Death Wing.
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Old 20 Jun 2007, 17:07   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

There are two things that must be said about the Dark Angels:

If you want a Specialist army (ie: Pure Deathwing or Pure Ravenwing), they are screwed. They have ruined the Ravenwing, and Deathwing are now very hard to play with.


If you want a well-rounded force, the Dark Angels are fantastic. All the little upgrades like free Frag & Krak Grenades, and the ability to carry more than two guns all help make the Codex truly fantastic.

I'd go into detail as to why I love them, but I hate long posts. Suffice to say that the Dark Angels have more balanced rules, have great fluff, and generally are superior to their standard brethren. If I had to pick just one Codex, I'd go Dark Angel.
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Old 21 Jun 2007, 00:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

Fluff-wise- They epitomise the Codex Astartes, how Marines are supposed to fight. Marines aren't supposed to field dozens of 6xman las/plas squads, etc.

Game-wise- As with most things the dream and the reality are two completely different things. The dream to make Space Marines competitive whilst still adhering to the fluff- the reality, the DA are the SM's poorer cousin, everything of use has a price hike, whilst lots of variety and options have been removed for simplicity.

The fact the pts costs are all in multiples of 5 kind of summarises the intelligence level they want for DA, if you can't add up in anything other than 5's...
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Old 21 Jun 2007, 03:02   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

If a fully mechanized marine force appeals to you, then the Dark Angels might be something that would interest you. The price of Rhinos, Razorbacks and Predators all have dropped.
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Old 21 Jun 2007, 03:20   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

When I first started playing warhammer I played "vanilla marines" for about a year before I stumbled upon the Dark Angels. Back with the old codex there wasn't a ton of special rules for them but combined with their background fluff they felt truly unique in comparison to the other chapters. These guys are out to redeem themselves in the face of the emperor while at the same time protecting knowledge of their sins from prying inquisitors and the alike.

Gamewise I think the new codex does justice as to what a real marine army should feel like. However in comparison to the space marine codex, I think the dark angels have a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to flexibility. Other marine chapters allow you to field squads of marines ranging from 5 strong to 10, where as the dark angels are limited to either. However, they have the fancy combat squad rule which is really nice.

There's been some talk about "point hikes" on the various unit entries and stuff in the codex, when really it isn't so much of a "hike" but rather upgrades already taken for you. If you look at the Dark Angel tactical squad entry and compare it to a normal 5 man marine squad there is a 15 point difference. That 15 point difference is the terminator honors that the Dark Angel sergeant is forced to take. (I apologize for the mentioning of specific point values.) The same holds true with the Dreadnought with forcing you to take an assault cannon.

Though I've called some of the point differences "Required upgrades", it doesn't really hinder the chapter's character or flexibility. Yes, you won't be able to accomplish certain crazy equipment combos like you will with the standard codex but there is still a lot of versatility in the list. Overall, if you like the idea of a unique chapter AND one that is fun to play, play the Angels. I presently have at 3,000-4,000 points worth of Dark Angels if not more, and I really couldn't see playing a different chapter.
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Old 21 Jun 2007, 05:22   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

Well while Dark Angels aren't my favorite chapter they are currently my largest marine force at about 2300pts. The Dark Angels have a few set advantages and disadvantages totally aside from their rules.

First the Dark Angels have a new codex and new models. This is good in that they won't be changing anytime soon so no surprises and the new models do look excelent. However this is also a negative in that their new rules aren't nearly as well documented yet and there aren't a whole lot of tried and tested army builds yet.

The Dark Angels have a lot of character and play rather differently than normal marines if you wish.
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Old 21 Jun 2007, 07:22   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Considering playing Dark Angels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chordelis
There's been some talk about "point hikes" on the various unit entries and stuff in the codex, when really it isn't so much of a "hike" but rather upgrades already taken for you. If you look at the Dark Angel tactical squad entry and compare it to a normal 5 man marine squad there is a 15 point difference. That 15 point difference is the terminator honors that the Dark Angel sergeant is forced to take. (I apologize for the mentioning of specific point values.) The same holds true with the Dreadnought with forcing you to take an assault cannon.
There is no point hike. Veteran Sergeants are virtually compulsory in most armies. Sure you "must" take one, but you are also getting Bolt Pistols, Frag & Krak Grenades for free. That's about 40 points worth of free stuff in a 10-man Tac. I think you'll agree the "difference" is entirely in favour of the Dark Angels.

As for the Dread... well, Ass-cannon raping is just sick and wrong. The weapon was massively altered in the transition into 4th Edition, yet the Space Marine Codex does not reflect that. You are not "forced" to take an Assault Cannon; all Dreadnoughts come with an Assault Cannon as standard now, which can be swapped out. This applies to Vanilla, Dark Angels, and presumably the upcoming Blood Angels as well.
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