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lightning claws vs thunderhammer.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 16:11   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

what would you consider the better deal for overall killing, two lightning claws, or the thunderhammer? i'm not an SM player, but i will be using their army this weekend and i'd appreciate any input on this. i realize that they hold separate functions, but i'd like the opinion anyhow.

personally, the though of a jump-packed commander leaping at someone with dual lightning claws seems like it'd be pretty scary, as it'd cut down almost 3 or 4 MEQs per round.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 16:19   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

If you're planning on equipping your SM Commander with one then I'd personally go with the dual Lightning Claws. Space Marines have excellent Initiative, Commanders have even better Initiative! Why waste all that by going and getting a Thunderhammer that, while being very effective against enemy tanks, makes you strike last in combat? If you want to fight armor and kill MEQs by the dozen at the same time with a cheap Commander, consider this build:

Space Marine Commander
-Dual Lightning Claws
-Melta Bombs 110 pts

If your SM Commander is in an Assault Terminator Command Squad then the Thunderhammer may be right for you. Hope that helps.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 17:05   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

I agree with what Frogger said. Better than a Commander though, try equipping a Chaplain with lightning claws and Termie honours!

Six Strength 4 attacks? Re-roll to hit? Re-roll to wound? No armour saves? Yes please. ;D

Give him a footslogging command squad and you gain access to the 'Furious charge' special skill too! >
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 19:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

Wow!

Ran some quick math and assuming I didn't flub the numbers:

Quote:
Chaplain with two lightning claws, terminator honours.

Command Squad with terminator honour sergeant, lightning claws, and four marines with terminator honours, lightning claws. As campaign veterans, they benefit from the furious charge rule.

This gives twenty-six S5 attacks on the charge that ignore armour saves, and re-roll all hits as well as wounds, and strike at initiative five.
I realize they'll cost...a pretty penny, but in a 2500 point game, wouldn't that group do a little more than seriously rule? Any way I can sneak jump-packs on my group of wolverines?
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 20:02   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krupintupple
Wow!

Ran some quick math and assuming I didn't flub the numbers:

Quote:
Chaplain with two lightning claws, terminator honours.

Command Squad with terminator honour sergeant, lightning claws, and four marines with terminator honours, lightning claws. As campaign veterans, they benefit from the furious charge rule.

This gives twenty-six S5 attacks on the charge that ignore armour saves, and re-roll all hits as well as wounds, and strike at initiative five.
I realize they'll cost...a pretty penny, but in a 2500 point game, wouldn't that group do a little more than seriously rule? Any way I can sneak jump-packs on my group of wolverines?
I'm afraid your proposed setup is illegal, as only the sergeant and specialists with termies honours can take equipment from the armoury. Unless you mean to upgrade three marines to the specialist roles too, then I'm afraid they're restricted to the options listed in their unit entry.

If you did all that, you'd be looking at a 468 point unit consisting of five marines and a chaplain. Knock off the cost of the Chaplain and split that 5 ways and each marine costs over 67 points! Yes, they may rock in close combat, but they're just not going to get there.

As if Land Raiders don't draw enough fire on their own, a Raider transporting a unit like this will draw fire from neighbouring star systems. One penetrating hit and your uber-marines are Battlecannon fodder. :P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 20:09   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krupintupple
Wow!

Ran some quick math and assuming I didn't flub the numbers:

Quote:
Chaplain with two lightning claws, terminator honours.

Command Squad with terminator honour sergeant, lightning claws, and four marines with terminator honours, lightning claws. As campaign veterans, they benefit from the furious charge rule.

This gives twenty-six S5 attacks on the charge that ignore armour saves, and re-roll all hits as well as wounds, and strike at initiative five.
I realize they'll cost...a pretty penny, but in a 2500 point game, wouldn't that group do a little more than seriously rule? Any way I can sneak jump-packs on my group of wolverines?
Actually, you can take that exact configuration. If you want to take them as a Command Squad you can but it will cost a helluva lot more than you think seeing as you'll have to buy each squad member Terminator honors and a Jump Pack not to mention the veteran skill Furious Charge! If you want nearly the same results get the following:

Chaplain (Master of Sanctity)
-Dual Lightning Claws
-Terminator Honors
-Fragmentation Grenade
-Jump Pack 166 pts (Counts as an HQ slot)

7 Assault Marines
-Jump Packs
-Fragmentation Grenades 154 pts (Counts as a Fast Attack slot)

Deploy the squad and the Chaplain close to each other and attach the Master of Sanctity to the Assault Marines to kick the shit out of pretty much anything (not vehicles, that is).
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 20:17   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
Actually, you can take that exact configuration. If you want to take them as a Command Squad you can but it will cost a helluva lot more than you think seeing as you'll have to buy each squad member Terminator honors and a Jump Pack not to mention the veteran skill Furious Charge! If you want nearly the same results get the following:
No you can't, read your codex. Terminator honours are not the doorway to instant armoury access; it specifically states when a model with Terminator honours may select items from the armoury; it's not automatic. Only the sergeant and specialists within a Command Squad can have access to the armoury with terminator honours, regular marines cannot. You can have up to three specialists which means even if you take them all and upgrade the entire squad with Terminator honours, you're still going to have one marine left clutching his bolter and feeling inadequate.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 20:38   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

Sorry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
Actually, you can take that exact configuration. If you want to take them as a Command Squad you can but it will cost a helluva lot more than you think seeing as you'll have to buy each squad member Terminator honors and a Jump Pack not to mention the veteran skill Furious Charge! If you want nearly the same results get the following:
No you can't, read your codex. Terminator honours are not the doorway to instant armoury access; it specifically states when a model with Terminator honours may select items from the armoury; it's not automatic. Only the sergeant and specialists within a Command Squad can have access to the armoury with terminator honours, regular marines cannot. You can have up to three specialists which means even if you take them all and upgrade the entire squad with Terminator honours, you're still going to have one marine left clutching his bolter and feeling inadequate.
Sorry Tom, but I have to disagree. I have the French codex but it explains quite clearly that if the Sergeant of the Command Squad takes Terminator Honors then all other members can select Terminator Honors for +10 pts per Marine, thus granting them access to Jump Packs.

Either way, it's still grossly inefficient.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 20:57   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
Sorry Tom, but I have to disagree. I have the French codex but it explains quite clearly that if the Sergeant of the Command Squad takes Terminator Honors then all other members can select Terminator Honors for +10 pts per Marine, thus granting them access to Jump Packs.

Either way, it's still grossly inefficient.
I'll repeat as it seems you were not paying attention. The fact that the entire squad can be given Terminator honours is not in question. But having Terminator honours does not automatically grant access to the armoury. Nowhere in the codex does it say that. Where models with Terminator honours have access it specifically makes mention of it in that unit's army list entry. Yes, the sergeant can have Terminator honours and that grants him access to the armoury. Yes, the rest of the squad can take Terminator honours too, for 10 points a piece. But those models do not have access to the armoury. It then goes on to say that 'all specialists with Terminator Honours may select additional equipment from the Space Marine armoury'. It is perfectly clear. You're just tripping up because you've got so used to models with Terminator honours having access to the armoury that you've come to believe that access comes as standard. Read the wargear entry for Terminator honours; you will see it makes no mention of allowing models to take additional equipment from the armoury.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 21:01   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: lightning claws vs thunderhammer.

I must agree with Tom on this one man. It's right there in black and white.
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