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Blood Angels Reborn
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 06:59   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Blood Angels Reborn

[size=14pt]Blood Angels Reborn[/size]

I've now had time to review the new changes to the Blood Angels rules, found in White Dwarfs 329 and 330. In some ways I'm pleased, and in others I'm horrified and at the same time I'm rather angry that GW did not give the Blood Angels the care and time they really needed and that they were not given an actual codex. Nevertheless I'll now try and lay out some of the most important changes and a review of them.

[size=12pt]What the Sons of Sanguinius Gained[/size]

The Blood Angels gained some interesting things that are as follows:
  • Revised function for overcharged engines making them safer and more effective, and also giving them wider availability than before.
  • Assault Squads as Troops, yes troops.
  • Dante gained some impressive abilities and his inferno pistol now counts as a melta gun pistol which is better than before and he grants preferred enemy to whoever your enemy is to all models in range of his ability.
  • Mephiston can use up to four psychic abilities now, with access to all three Blood Angel specific powers and a force weapon he can use all of them in each player turn and has also gotten a general upgrade.
  • Lemartes has become a more obvious choice for a chaplain, retaining his abilities and Jump Pack.
  • Death Company Dreadnaughts.
  • Veteran Assault Squads got a boost in effectiveness.
  • Death Company now has rending attacks and no longer takes models from squads and is optional.
  • Multi Meltas are a free upgrade for attack bikes.

There are other additions but those are the major ones, as you can see some not too bad things in there. The Death Company is excelent as always and Dante with an Honor Guard cand standard, coupled with Lemartes leading a Death Company will probably be seen in tournaments quite often from now on. However the Blood Angels did lose more than a few things.

[size=12pt]What the Sons of Sanguinius Lost[/size]
  • No more Furious Charge on all Infantry.
  • No more flamers in assault squads.
  • No more Black Rage.
  • No more Sanguinary High Priests, Corbulo is it.
  • No Jump Packs for regular HQs.
  • No more Death Company Chaplains.
  • No more Red Grail as a wargear option.
  • Scouts as Elites.
  • Power Fists jumped in cost.
  • Plasma Pistols and Plasma Rifles jumped in cost.
  • Predator's jumped in cost.
  • Only 1 Heavy Weapon for Terminators.
  • No Teleport Homers.
  • No more Moriar.

And of course other losses and alterations. Along with the implementation of the Combat Squads rules that sums up the majority of the changes I think. As you can see the Blood Angels gained some very nice things, but they lost a great many others, likely quite a few older players armies will now have plenty of illegal models in them, especially the HQs, heck I even have one and I don't yet play the chapter.

The Death Company remains a vital part of the army and now Veteran Assault Squads and Dante with Honor Guard will likely return in force. Assault squads are now fairly cost inefficient as are Tactical squads, but now without the ever present danger of raging forward and wasting heavy weapons fire Devastators at full strength and then divided into two seems like the way to go to get support weapons into the army. Baal predators now with the new Overcharged Engines will also likely be seen even more often as well. Scouts and Tactical Marines will probably hit the shelves, and Terminators will stay there. Bikes and Attack bikes may now come into a presence as their mobile and fairly cheap weaponry makes them a good substitute for the now void 6 man las/plas squads of old.

All in all the changes are... interesting. I personally don't like them, I think GW has foisted a rather insulting and rushed bundle on the players who really deserved more. However everyone is entitled to their own oppinions, I suggest everyone take a look at the rules in white dwarf 329 and 330 for yourselves, some of you may be dissapointed, some of you may be delighted but the change is upon us and there is really nothing to be done about it now but to move on.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 09:11   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

Nice to see all the changes in one post, this makes it clear what has been changed. Thanks.

I still have to wait till the end of the month for the WD to come out with the army list.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 14:30   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

I totally disagree with your assessment vash.

I just read over the list this morning and I'm very pleased with how it looks.

Firstly HQ

A full run of special characters and all but one (*COUGHTYCHOCOUGH*) are quite worth taking, if you want to shell out the points.

If you're not feeling like running a special character then you can still take a commander, librarian, or chaplain. These are basically the same as the versions presented in the Dark Angels codex. Not killer combat powerhouses, but cheap efficient leaders. If you want a death dealing monster go with a special character.

Elites:

Death Company

AHH! They are nasty nasty fiends. You get one death company model for just about any non scout squad you take in the army. Consequently SOME squads (troops, devastators) are a bit more expensive, but the extra amount you pay for them is about half of what a death company marine costs. Plus if you don't feel like you're getting enough death company marines for cheap then you can buy more members, though they have a hefty price tag. The squad maxes at 10. Then you can give the death company jet packs for a VERY small price per model, totally worth it.
Oh yeah and they don't actually use an elite slot up.

Veteran assault squads look mean. Picture a dark angels veteran squad. They are identical, except for only 5 points more per model they all get jump packs!

Scouts, techmarines & Dreadnoughts

Again they're just like the version in the dark angels codex. The only difference is that for some unknown reason techmarines cost an extra 50 points. Very odd....

Furiouso Dreadnoughts

They're fairly cheap, but can be upgraded to venerable and death company dreadnoughts. So instead of having one moriar you can have three!

Troops

Tactical squads. They have a hefty price tag for five models, but remember that point cost includes not only the veteran sergeant but also a death company model. They can add 5 more marines and a heavy weapon for the same prices as dark angels.

Assault squads. They're troops, you can have an entirely jet pack army. A little pricey for five models, but again that extra cost accounts for a death company marine.

Fast attack

Nice and cheap attack bike squads.
Land speeder prices brought in line with the dark angels codex. Up to one typhoon and two tornadoes per squad.
Bikes are pretty much the same, 3-5 models, always includes a veteran sergeant.

Heavy support

Tank prices brought in line with dark angels codex, so the preads are nice and cheap. Devastators will indeed be appealing in this book and have seen a price reduction for plasma cannons.

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Old 19 Jun 2007, 14:38   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

What I don't like is it still seems like playing BA will still be a game of "Sink the DC". And now that rending proliferation has been applied to them it's even worse. If they don't buy extra DC you still get absolutely nothing for killing them and the tac squads remain at their original size, making it harder than before to stop 'em from being a scoring unit. For some reason BA units will score more pts in missions that use the unit's pta value to determine how much they score for objectives. And due to the threat posed by the DC it's more likely that those units will survive. The 10 man squad cap is nice, but unless you were playing someone real lucky, or a real git, DCs didn't really get much bigger than that anyway.

I personally think they should've just avoided all this madness, made them a retinue option for the chaplain and given them the option of a couple models to take power fists/weapons instead of giving yet another unit rending. Now you'd actually score pts for killing them, players wouldn't be able to get cheapo DC by taking small cheap units (which, while not as effective as before, can still be done), and they wouldn't have to monkey around with the scoring ability of other units.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 14:42   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

Rending??? On Death Company??

Why oh why do GW bother. Just make Bolters rending and be done with it, then no one can have a balanced game.



Disclaimer: I have not played with, or against BA since the update. Comments made are in reference to GW's giving of rending to everyone, nothing more. Hell, they may be another unbeardy marine army.....
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 14:52   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

Just for fun, here's the "NEW" cheesy blood angels army

Chaplain w/ jump pack
120

5 free death company + 1 extra, 6 jump packs
60

5 Assault marines, veteran sergeant has a power weapon and melta bombs
160

5 Assault marines, veteran sergeant has a power fist
165

5 Assault marines, veteran sergeant has a power fist
165

5 Assault marines, veteran sergeant has a power fist
165

5 Assault marines, veteran sergeant has a power fist
165

Total: 1000 points

So you have 25 assault marines, 4 power fists and one power weapon.
6 Death company led by a chaplain, all for a total of 32 jump infantry in power armour. Not bad at all for 1000 points.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 15:57   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
I've now had time to review the new changes to the Blood Angels rules, found in White Dwarfs 329 and 330. In some ways I'm pleased, and in others I'm horrified and at the same time I'm rather angry that GW did not give the Blood Angels the care and time they really needed and that they were not given an actual codex.
Dark Angels were the last of the Space Marines to get a new codex as a chapter. From now on all the specific chapters of the Space Marines will be released as updates in White Dwarf, so don't feel excluded all the other chapters(except Ultramarines who the codex is based on) will be joining Blood Angels soon enough.

A new Space Marine codex will be released to take this into account as the current Space Marine codex is considered too confusing by Jervis Johnson, and he decided that only armies in general will get Codexes.

By this new policy, Chaos and Space Marines amongst others will get codexes, but specific varients such as LATD and specific Marine Chapters will only be released as updates in issues of White Dwarf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
All in all the changes are... interesting. I personally don't like them, I think GW has foisted a rather insulting and rushed bundle on the players who really deserved more.
This actually isn't a rushed job, this is the new standard for the Space Marine Chapters as handed down by Johnson. While it may seem rushed and poorly done on the outside there are also benefits to this new system.

Namely:
1: There will be less time between releases for the most played army in the game, i.e. Space marines. Space Wolves from what I understand are the next chapter in the GW/WD chapter release pipeline. This way all eight of the major marine chapters can have their own army variant to play.

2: Other players with armies that aren't marines will be happy as it means the new codex for their army will be put out sooner, rather than seeing the release of one marine codex for every two other armies put out.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 17:37   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

Yes, yes I know that the army list is not bad and it can do well, that is entirely besides the point Falstead. The point is that they don't seem like Blood Angels anymore, in one fell swoop Jervis annihilated the Blood Angels and in it's place left vanilla marines with a gimmick Death Company. That's it. Yes it can still do well and still win, but it's not "Blood Angels" and that is what angers me. They are also practically the same as Dark Angels now which is even more frustrating, I don't play Dark Angels because they are just a little different from other chapters, I play them because they are quite a bit different, with their own strengths and weaknesses and specializations, and now the same has happened to the Blood Angels and it's maddening. I'm dreading what will happen to the Space Wolves codex.

As for the updates I don't mind waiting for full codexies, I would wather be patient and wait for a full codex release with new models, expanded fluff and all the rest than have this rush job foisted on me. If it takes longer for them to come out, then so be it. This method of updating the rules just does not give the Blood Angels (or Space Wolves if it happens to them) the time and consideration they need. I see no reason to speed up releases at the expence of quality and I certainly don't see much quality in these updates.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 18:16   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

It's not so much a matter of waiting for the marine codexes by the marine players, it's a matter of waiting for the other codexes by every single other armies' players.

For example had it not been for them releasing the Dark Angels and Black Templar codexes we would already have the Chaos Codex and the Space Orks codex out, and we would be talking about an entirely different pair of army books coming out in the near future.

Also since Jervis is trying to streamline the game so eight year olds can play it as easily as young adults it wouldn't matter whether or not it was in a White Dwarf or a brand new codex, I'm reasonably sure it would look the same.

The difference between a codex release and a WD release is that with a Codex release you have a huge amount of time and money spent building up the coming release, making new models, updating old models, etc. By releasing it in WD you can avoid all of that as there isn't really a need for any new models as Space Marines have more new models than jsut about any other army.
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Old 19 Jun 2007, 18:24   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Blood Angels Reborn

See I don't even agree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
The point is that they don't seem like Blood Angels anymore, in one fell swoop Jervis annihilated the Blood Angels and in it's place left vanilla marines with a gimmick Death Company.
They're a fair bit different from other chapters I think, and now they're at least paying something for the bonuses they gain.

First they get no less than FIVE unique units! FIVE!

Death company
Furious (and death company) Dreadnoughts
Honour guard
Veteran Assault squads
Baal predator

They've also got a whole host of special character to choose from. With one exception(Tycho) each and every special character is really powerful and useful to the army.

Addressing your list of things they lost.


  • No more Furious Charge on all Infantry.
GOOD! This was a free ability that the entire army got. Incredibly powerful and unjustified.
  • No more flamers in assault squads.
I'm surprised about this one since vanilla marines do it. Can dark angels do it? Either way this one is hardly a really big deal.
  • No more Black Rage.
Good! Now Blood angels players can
a) Rely on their support units to be support units.
b) have to think of some way to deliver assault units that doesn't involve them just throwing dice on the table.
This change speeds up the game and makes the army perform better and more fairly to all involved.
  • No more Sanguinary High Priests, Corbulo is it.
That's fine. What would a non Corbulo high priest add? Consider him to be an archetype and feel free to convert your own version.
  • No Jump Packs for regular HQs.
That's not true.
  • No more Death Company Chaplains.
Lead a chaplain with the death company. Done and solved.
  • No more Red Grail as a wargear option.
Isn't it a unique item carried by Corbulo? Well he's still got it so all is well.
  • Scouts as Elites.
This will be standard I think, at least in lists with an alternate troop choice. Assault squads as troops is pretty keen and fluffy I think.
  • Power Fists jumped in cost.
Standard. A good change too since buried power fists are very powerful.
  • Plasma Pistols and Plasma Rifles jumped in cost.
Ditto. Thats the new cost of these weapons, no use complaining about it, every MEQ will feel that soon.
  • Predator's jumped in cost.
Only annihilators with triple lascannons, everything else was brought in line with the dark angels (new) point costs for tanks. This will be standard moving forward.
  • Only 1 Heavy Weapon for Terminators.
Standard
  • No Teleport Homers.
Annoying, but not the end of the world
  • No more Moriar.
Access to THREE death company dreadnoughts, these are what moriar is so that argument isn't one.[/list]

You can still make a list that plays quite differently to a dark angels or vanilla marine army, or you can make something very similar. Either way this is a GOOD LIST.
It's clear, its balanced and its interesting.

Blood Angels are a codex chapter, they're quite similar to normal marines.

Space wolves will be radically different since they operate more like a legion.

What particular list or tactic can you not use with this new one? Other than ridiculous Death company spammage?
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