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Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 00:37   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

Alright, so here's my attempt at the stupid question of the year. I believe I have the correct answer, but I want to be sure. Storm Bolters are a 2 handed weapon. Therefore, a Terminator with a Power Fist and a Storm Bolter does not receive the +1 bonus in close combat for have two close combat weapons - correct? (Unless the said Terminator would have True Grit, of course).

I ask because every Terminator I've ever seen is wielding his Storm Bolter like a pistol. I think the rules are very straightforward - but I want to make sure that I'm not missing something.

Thanks & please excuse my ignorance.
Emlyn
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 00:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

As far as I know they do not receive the +1 attack bonus, as they already have 2 attacks base and have a 2 handed weapon...

however, they can still shoot and assault as if that storm bolter were actually a pistol...
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 00:59   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

How is it possible for the terminator to have a two handed weapon and a power fist...
Wouldn't a stupider question be if a banana has eyes what would you call it???
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 01:02   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

Yeah, the storm bolter always looks like it's a pistol, but I'd imagine that it's too heavy to really use in close combat. It's one thing to hold it steady and open fire, especially if you're a Terminator or a commander or something, but it's a different thing to try and manuever it around to work with your CCW of choice.
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 02:22   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

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Originally Posted by SmellTheAshes
Yeah, the storm bolter always looks like it's a pistol, but I'd imagine that it's too heavy to really use in close combat. It's one thing to hold it steady and open fire, especially if you're a Terminator or a commander or something, but it's a different thing to try and manuever it around to work with your CCW of choice.
Okay thanks. I just needed another person to confirm it.

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Originally Posted by ganton
How is it possible for the terminator to have a two handed weapon and a power fist...
They may select two one-handed weapons or one two-handed and one one-handed weapon from the armoury. So they may have both. However, my question was pertaining to the status of Storm Bolters when weilded by Terminators (being: do they count as one or two handed?).
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 14:39   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

The one handed/two handed distinction is mostly something used for selecting wargear from the armoury. Something that is rapidly becoming obsolete. So really the answer to storm bolters being one or two handed is "It doesn't matter"

What does matter is the weapons profile. Remember a one handed weapon doesn't automatically let you use it in combat. The rule is a model with two close combat weapons, or a close combat weapon and a pistol gets +1 attack in close combat. A storm bolter is an assault weapon so it will never get +1 attack in combat.

Unless of course your a grey knight in power armour, but thats a very special and exceptional unit.
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Old 25 Apr 2007, 07:45   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
The one handed/two handed distinction is mostly something used for selecting wargear from the armoury. Something that is rapidly becoming obsolete. So really the answer to storm bolters being one or two handed is "It doesn't matter"

What does matter is the weapons profile. Remember a one handed weapon doesn't automatically let you use it in combat. The rule is a model with two close combat weapons, or a close combat weapon and a pistol gets +1 attack in close combat. A storm bolter is an assault weapon so it will never get +1 attack in combat.
Actually, it's two one-handed weapons, not a ccw and pistol.
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Old 26 Apr 2007, 16:35   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
The one handed/two handed distinction is mostly something used for selecting wargear from the armoury. Something that is rapidly becoming obsolete. So really the answer to storm bolters being one or two handed is "It doesn't matter"

What does matter is the weapons profile. Remember a one handed weapon doesn't automatically let you use it in combat. The rule is a model with two close combat weapons, or a close combat weapon and a pistol gets +1 attack in close combat. A storm bolter is an assault weapon so it will never get +1 attack in combat.
No, Falstead is right, two cc weapons (a pistol counts as a cc weapon). A one-handed weapon doesn't count as a cc weapon.

Actually, it's two one-handed weapons, not a ccw and pistol.
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Old 30 Apr 2007, 18:50   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

intresting that you bring this up, my gameing group had a discussion on this about a year ago, and we introduced a new house rule, that has been in effect since then and has caused no issues.

here it is:
Quote:
House rule #2 Terminators. For us, Terminators just were not bad ass enough, and everyone agreed on this, much discussion revolved around the Terminators and how they got splattered so easily at times compared to the extreme cost. Several Changes were made to the Terminators.

Change 1. Power Fists / Storm Hammers, all strike at initiative 1, this rule is IGNORED for terminators, period, This rule does make sense for models not in Terminator Armor, however , with the reinforced exoskeleton, the increased strength, ect. We found it better to ignore the rule, but still stay true to the spirit of the story line given for Terminators. Thus, Terminators strike in initiative order per the normal rules.

Change 2. Basic Terminator has a Power fist and Storm bolter. The strength and power of a suit of Tactical Dreadnought Armor allows them to wield weapons in one hand which would normally take two hands to wield. They can also move and shoot with heavy weapons. The change we did is as follows, Similar to the true grit ability that some units have, Terminators may consider Storm bolters to be like pistols thus counting as an extra close combat weapon. Thus Terminators have A = 1 (base) +1 (terminator honors / terminator armor) +1 (extra weapon) +1 if charging ect. Thus a total of 4 if they charge.

We testing these rules out in over 50 battles, All of us totally enjoyed these house rules, and even with the changes, concluded NO change in points cost for terminators, This did make them quite scary, but not totally unbeatable. “The Tyranid bodies were piled six deep at the feet of the Terminators”

We had considered changing the Invulnerable save to 4+, but after a few short battles, this proved to be extremely unbalancing and was thus discarded.
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Old 30 Apr 2007, 18:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Storm Bolters & Terminators (Stupid question of the year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenheart
intresting that you bring this up, my gameing group had a discussion on this about a year ago, and we introduced a new house rule, that has been in effect since then and has caused no issues.
Thanks very much. That's a very interesting rule. I might give it a try. Actually, though, my problem was that charging terminators seemed too powerful to me. But your rule does make them very "movie-esque" and perhaps more woth the points cost.
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