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deathwing death
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Old 15 Dec 2006, 21:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default deathwing death

I am totally disheartened by GWs callous regard for the deathwing. If the rumours are true and I'm sure they are, we are going to get a totally neutered Deathwing. I have 3000 points of DW. Yes, I do have my old standard bearer and apothecaqry that I can now use. Whoopee.

So
Must take a MotD to use DW termies as troops
Why do I want tyo use a Master of the Deathwing when I have a perfectly good Libby and Chappie all painted up? He is a waste. Yes, he has some nice stats but do you really think he is better thasn a Libby in a DW army? This forces me to use two HQs now even in smaller games if I really want to be competitive.

One heavy weapon per squad of five
Well to begin with I like squads of six not five for VP purposes. I could live with this though. But only one AC per squad? I get to use LCs and THs instead of my other AC. Another big whoopee. Like my PFs were not good enough. Double ACs were the ONLY reason to play DW. Its what made them somewhat competitive. Even then they did not win GTs. So you neuter an already suspect army. While other codexes have been enhancing armies, GW decides it does not like the static gunline of DW and wants to try and make us get mobile.

Quote:
No vet skills
Well if CMLs were marginal before they will not be used at all now. Plus if we choose to go with an assault squad - no furious charge.

Quote:
Half your force must DS turn one
Have any GWers ever played DW. We do not like turn one. We do not want to deepstrike turn one. This almost forces us to use LRs ( remember the 'get mobile' comment ) unless we want to isolate half of our army. Great notion from GW. I also pretty much need two drop podding dreads now. I guess I could buy drop pods for the whole army. Thats what GW wanted - a drop pod DW list. I get it.

end rant

addendum
Guess who has 3000 points of well painted DW for sale?
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 00:04   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

Quote:
Originally Posted by bebe
...Guess who has 3000 points of well painted DW for sale?
I understand your grievances, but before you put it all on EBay, you might wait until the codex is actually released. Maybe all the rumours are true, but that still doesn't mean you've got the whole picture. Deathwing may be improved in way we do not yet know. Give it a few months, wait for the codex, and if you're still unhappy then they'll be a wide market of new players falling over themselves to get the new 'in-fashion' army.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 04:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

ARE YOU NUTS!?!?!

So what if you lost a heavy weapon from each squad. We get to take mixed squads now... You don't need Assault terminator squads anymore.

No one said that you have to deepstrike first turn, but I'm looking forward to it. Heck, with the ability to take ravenwing in your deathwing army ( and with them having both teleport homers and the scout USR built in) you're going to be teleporting a lot of terminators into very advantageous positions even in missions with the escalation rules First Turn. On top of that it only says that you can do it with half of your terminators, not half of your "deepstriking" terminators. I'm thinking 4 units, 2 with assault cannons that will deepstrike and 2 with missile launchers that will start on the table and take advantage of that long range. Thats a first turn where your enemy doesn't have a place to run or hide. I am gladly giving up my extra assault cannon for that bit of nastiness.

No, if anything Deathwing is going to do 2 things, its going to weed out those that were in it for the wrong reason (what you mean I can have 2 assault cannons in a 6 man squad as a troop choice.... velveeta here I come), and its going to allow those that can think outside the box to start owning tournaments.

Thats right I'm saying it here and now. For the first time in Years the cheesiest most vile army that anyone will be able to take to a tournament will be the deathwing. Zilla nids run, min/max las/plas hide, and eldar council of dooms can bite the big one...
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 04:55   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

I disagree. The assault cannon was what made DW able to be semi-competetive. It was the advantage to the many drawbacks. With the loss of it, DW are getting kicked in the geneseeds. So what, you've got some lightning claws and a nice deepstrike? You've only got 1 assault cannon per squad, and you're ready for some plasma-y death. Not to mention that if you're taking 4 squads of Terminators (~1100 points) and two squads of bikers (~400 points), you'll be outnumbered with less firepower than you were before.

Pure deathwing is killed. The fact that you're planning on using Ravenwing too is proof of this; you're not willing to go pure, are you? It's nice to have half your squads deep strike first turn, but with half the firepower, it won't make much difference.
I'm beginning to think GW hates the Dark Angels.
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 12:27   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

No, I'll still play pure deathwing. Unlike others that seem to rely most readily on the crutch of a second assault cannon, I trust my experience and skills completely.

However I truly believe that the Deathwing/Ravenwing hybrid army is going to be the nastiest army to beat in the tournament scene. So what if you lose one heavy per deathwing squad, you'll also be taking 2 specials per bike squad (full of course so that you can split them) meaning if anything you'll be shoring up the deficincies that current Deathwing armies are having.

No, what I see right now, and Bebe has proven, is that those that love the deathwing and were in it for the fun and fluff will stay with the deathwing. Those that weren't instead of waiting and seeing how effective their army could be are either trying to sell off their deathwing or are turning to a bone colored Lysanderwing.

And to those that are abandoning the Deathwing because they can't see the possibilities I say " Good Riddance".
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 14:38   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

Quote:
No, if anything Deathwing is going to do 2 things, its going to weed out those that were in it for the wrong reason (what you mean I can have 2 assault cannons in a 6 man squad as a troop choice.... velveeta here I come),
You are kidding me, right. DW is not cheesy. It is sorely outnumbered in every matchup, has few choices and requires a very good tactician to be successfull. If you think me a power gamer because I like their current setup you sadly mistaken. In fact the new rules might weed out those who truly love DW and see an influx of newbies jumpoing on a bandwagon as happens with every new codex. *I the one hand you say the hybrid army is uber competitive and then say the old army is cheesy. The old army never ran over GTs - I was always happy with a decent showing but never expected to come first. Eldar, Land speeder SM armies even feral orks can be made much cheesier then the current DW. Nope - GW has it in for our beloved DW - they are gearing the codex to force us to implement a more mobile approach to the army to suit their current tastes. This has nothing to do with what old time DW players want.


Now hold on there. Suddenly my old DW are chessy? What have you been smoking. DW were not overpowered at all. Sure we needed two ACs to make iup for the fact that we were fielding the smallest army in 40K. You want t6o deep strike first turn do you? Well, good luck with that tactic. I don't deepstrike my terminators now anmd almost every DW player I know prefers to go second. I'm not a power gamer. Jeez, my second army of choice are zealots/wh and my third army is IG.
Now if I wanted to play Ravenwing ( which is an army I have no interest in at all ) I might consider a hybrid force. But in fact I am an old school DW player ( still have my old command squad w/ apothecary and standard bearer).
As for -'we can mix lightning claws into the squads now' - well, big woop -de -doo. I never used assault termies anyway and my libbie or my chappie if needed could handle themselves just fine if they got assaulted. I certainly do not want to assault and then be left standing ion the wind to blown to bits. PFs have suited me just fine so far.
You have a problem that I like 6 man squads? How in thew world is that a cheesy admission? Why would you set me up to lose VPs in an all termie army? Its not enough I'm outnumbered 3-1?

Quote:
I truly believe that the Deathwing/Ravenwing hybrid army is going to be the nastiest army to beat in the tournament scene.
I just have no printable comment here.

Quote:
understand your grievances, but before you put it all on EBay, you might wait until the codex is actually released. Maybe all the rumours are true, but that still doesn't mean you've got the whole picture. Deathwing may be improved in way we do not yet know.
Probably the sagest advice yet. I'm still love my DW. I'm just disappointed with what I've heard might be in store for them ( granted these are still rumours ). I just want to play pure DW - no hybrids - and feel that I at least stand a chance of winning.
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 17:19   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

If you're so sure of yourself, play a competetive opponent with only 1 heavy weapon in each squad and the Master of the Deathwing. Tell me how that works out.
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 17:21   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

Keep it nice guys.

We are talking about rumours that haven't been confirmed yet. I suggest you wait until you get the proof that the changes are for real.
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Old 16 Dec 2006, 22:09   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abael
If you're so sure of yourself, play a competetive opponent with only 1 heavy weapon in each squad and the Master of the Deathwing. Tell me how that works out.
Been testing the rumored rules for about 2 weeks now. Against both a zilla nid and a min/maxed marine force. Haven't lost yet. But maybe I'm just really good....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stam
Keep it nice guys.

We are talking about rumours that haven't been confirmed yet. I suggest you wait until you get the proof that the changes are for real.
I apologize Stam, I am just really shocked at all the negativity that the rumors are producing. My first 40k love was to the dark angels and the deathwing in particular and I tend to take offence to all the deathwing players crying foul.

I mean as far as I can tell tactically we might be losing a heavy per squad, but we are gaining a lot for that loss. Deathwing will completely own any mission that allows for deepstriking. Period. And honestly I don't think my assumption is wrong that a mixed deathwing/ravenwing army is going to be the nastiest army out there. Remember there was a time when the seer council of doom was looked at as a "what are they thinking", only for it to become one of the most formidable armies in a tournament scene (or at least it was). Now the deathwing have access to some really nasty abilities (fearless, mixed weapons in the units, 1st turn deepstrike, the ability to take more than just terminators and dreadnoughts).

No, I completely stand by my positions as far as the deathwing are concerned.
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Old 17 Dec 2006, 00:13   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: deathwing death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howloutloud
...Deathwing will completely own any mission that allows for deepstriking...
Wait, can Deathwing only deepstrike when the mission allows it?

Is this a new rule or an old one? It strikes me as quite a handicap when compared to vanilla Terminators. ???
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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