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[BatRep] Suffer Not The Alien To Live, 1000pts Marines vs Dark Eldar
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Old 19 Nov 2006, 00:39   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default [BatRep] Suffer Not The Alien To Live, 1000pts Marines vs Dark Eldar

[size=15pt]Suffer Not The Alien To Live[/size]

I got a chance to go to Hobbies today and get in a game, I had to decide which army to take though as I wasnt lugging both all the way there today and after the flip of a coin the Ultramarines were packed and going. My opponent was a Dark Eldar player relatively new to the game. But I had never played Dark Eldar before and had little idea what to expect. At 1000 points I was expecting a lot of light skimmers and nasty surprises. The lists were as follows:

Ultramarines 7th Company

Master Captain Vash Thalion
-Storm Bolter, Power Weapon, Terminator Honors, Iron Halo, Frag Grenades
Tactical Squad Tyriel (10)
-Terminator Honors, Power Fist, Plasma Gun, Lascannon
Tactical Squad Oscelo (10)
-Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Terminator Honors, Power Weapon
Tactcal Squad Altaris (7 I think)
-Plasma Gun, Lascannon
Devastator Squad Voltaris (8)
-Missil Launcher x3, Heavy Bolter
Dreadnaught Vindicatus Morti
-Twin Linked Lascannon, Missil Launcher

Dark Eldar Raiders

x3 Haemonculus on jetbikes with some kinda nasty flamer thing
Ravager with 3 cannon things
Warrior Squad (10), some nasty assault weapon, dark lance and cc thing
-Raider Transport, dark lance
Warrior Squad (10), same equipment as the first... whatever that is
-Raider Transport, dark lance
Warrior Squad (10), same kit
-Raider Transport, dark lance
Warrior Squad (10), dark lance x2

Deployment:

The terrain was 2 large buildings on the right side of the board with a narrow alley between them and the left half of the board was pock marked craters and a small bunker in the center.

All 4 skimmers went behind the building on the DE deployment zone, unmounted warriors went in a crater and the haemonculus sat behind the building too. Devs went in crater on the left with squad Altaris behind them and squad Oscelo to the right with squad Tyriel on the edge of the building further right with the dread to squad Tyriel's right hiding in the building (I really expected him to die fast) and Captain Thalion sat between the devs and squad Altaris.

Incoming, the call echoed off the walls of buildings and down cramped corridors. All throughout the city klaxons wailed and sirens blared. On the outskirts of the system a sleek vessel just barely registering on the scanners approached. Somehow a lucky scan sweep had detected the slight anomaly that signalled the Alien vessel and the only confirmation was the sudden destruction of the sensor station. PDF troopers stormed from their barracks and rushed to errect barricades. Citizens fled to whatever shelter they could find. The war no longer had battle lines, the enemy was coming, coming fast and the Navy could not stop them. Aliens had come to carry the people screeming into some dark abyss from which they would never emerge, the result was pandemonium. As the major population centers fell into chaos and disarray the warriors of the Adeptus Astartes stood firm. Manning the trenchlines on the outskierts of Creon Secundus the Ultramarines 7th Company listened to the paniced vox transmissions from the city behind them with dispassion. The Xenos were coming to meet their death.

Turn 1
Dark Eldar: I won the roll for first turn but made the Dark Eldar go, I wanted those skimmers out where I could shoot them and true to form they came. The Ravager zoomed out along the edge of the first building on its upper platform to take shots at Squad Oscelo. The Raiders and Haemonculos all moved 24" to the alley and tried to hide. The eldar shooting resulted in 3 dead marines from squad Oscelo.

Ultramarines: Time to show these xenos how its done. Dreadnaught stromped forward into the building. Captain Thalion moved towards squad Oscelo. Squad Altaris' lascannon took down the Ravager, Dreadnaught and Squad Voltaris took down a Haemonculus and wounded a second. Squad Oscelo's Plasma Cannon downed 5 of 10 of the stationary squad and Squad Tyriel's lascannon popped another.

Turn 2
Dark Eldar: All 3 Raiders moved into the lower building 12" and dropped out their troops. Haemonculus moved infront of squad Tyriel and flamed the marines. 7 of the 10 fell to the nasty things. Two Warrior squads fired on the dread but failed to scratch its side armor, one of those squads charged it and promtly lost 2 members in the ensuing fight for no damage against the dread. The Haemonculus and the third warrior squad assaulted squad Tyriel killing one marine. 3 of the Warriors fell and the lascannon marine smashed down the wounded Haemonculus.

Ultramarines: Squad Voltaris downed the lead Raider with an immobolization result, squad Oscelo killed 2 more of the static warriors. In close combat the dread prevailed again stomping another puny Eldar and with the combat for squad Tyriel all saves were made and Sergeant Tyriel promtply crushed the horrific Haemonculus with his power fist, the lascannon marine pummeling a Dark Eldar warrior with his lascannon. Losing combat the Dark Eldar fled and escaped falling back 7 inches, squad Tyriel consolidated out of sight.

Turn 3
Dark Eldar: Third warrior squad loaded up and both remaining raiders moved 12" out of the terrain and promtly crashed into the ground. Both rolling a one on their dangerous terrain test and for a skimmer moving more than 6" that was death. 6 of the 10 mounted raiders promtly snuffed it in the crash. The falling back warriors failed to regroup and the static warriors failed to hit with their dark lances. In close combat another 2 warriors got stomped for no damage to the dreadnaught.

At this point with one squad tied up by the Dreadnaught, another falling back and all 3 out of combat about to be shot, 2 of which in rapid fire and facing heavy bolters and frag missils the Dark Eldar conceded the game. Victory to the Ultramarines without one unit being wiped out woohoo!

Results:

Dark Eldar Cassualties:
23 dead Warriors
3 dead Haemonculus
Ravager destroyed
3 Raiders destroyed

Ultramarine Cassualties:
3 Losses from squad Oscelo
8 Losses from squad Tyriel

End Game Comments:
Sergeant Tyriel and the Lacannon marine are getting purity seals added to their models, that was an amazing display I was stunned that they were not wiped out in that close combat but even so badly outnumbered they held, passed their saves and just crunched and smashed their way through the enemy and the Dark Eldar learned to fear the Ultramarines today. My deployment forced my opponent to bottleneck himself and keep his skimmers moving through a lot of terrain and it eventually caused their demise with two of the raiders crashing in one turn and killing more than half of their carried squad. With the extremely expencive Haemonculus dead and the Ravager's big guns removed the Dark Eldar were stuck trying to go on the offencive or stay put and die and their luck finally ended in the flaming wreck kinda way. The Dreadnaught also surprised me by surviving so much shooting and assault attacks. All in all I am very happy with how the army did but its yet another game where I have had to hunker down in the defencive. Next weekend I may pick up another Marine army at about 1500pts of drop podding infantry and dreadnaughts for 100 bucks but what to do with that Im not so sure. I could use rhinos but they are so expencive for 50 point models. I am also trying to add some vets but to do them right I either need some bits to spruce up a blood claw box and some lightning claws or just get a vet box Im not sure. So far the army is doing alright but Im having trouble figuring out how to expand it. More assault marines, a land speeder and some rhinos Im thinking. A Predator would help too but where Im going to get this money from beats me.

So anyway a great game, a fun game, a totally crazy game with how things turned out but certainly satisfying deffinetly made the day. What was even more funny was the Dark Eldar player went on to fight another noob Blood Raven player who was getting totaly stomped having lost most of his army. But I didnt think it was good to let that happen, the guy had a command squad, Dreadnaught and Tac squad left. I told him to run the Dreadnaught towards the same 3 Haemonculus on bikes who were hiding behind a downed Raider. Dreadnaught ran over the Raider wreck and got into base with all 3, none of them could hurt it, the dread designated one attack to each bike, hit with all 3 attacks, wounded and all 3 failed. Three 80 point bikes just crashed and the Dread consolidated into a nearby warrior squad. I then directed the kid to use his tac marines the next turn to destroy the Ravager which they did although the command squad and captain snuffed it the dread kept stomping through the warriors. With the ravager down and the dread eating its way through the warriors a certain defeat was turned around to a tie in two turns. Mwahahahahaha.

I guess I have fought marines way too much, it makes it easier to play them... I know what doesnt work already.
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Old 19 Nov 2006, 03:58   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: [BatRep] Suffer Not The Alien To Live, 1000pts Marines vs Dark Eldar

We start off with brief list critiques:
[size=12pt][b]Marines' List[/size]
--Master Captain was a decent call because you need something with at least initiative 5 to fight with the Dark Eldar in Assault, seeing as it's going to be real hard to handle them in assault if they get to you. I may have wanted to see a jump pack or something to get him where he needs to be, but okay as is.
--Marines ended up with, IMO, too much anti-tank to make for a fair game. Raiders can be popped with bolter fire, and most marine players would do well to remember that. Even 8 bolters @ 24" range gets you a glance a Raider. You ended up with 3 Lascannons, 3 Plasma Guns, a plasma cannon, 4 missile launchers, and a heavy bolter. There's no way you can throw down enough skimmers to deal with that.
--Power fists trump power weapons against Dark Eldar because you lose init anyways, you might as well take a bigger weapon.
--Las/plas, plas/plas, both good for dropping raiders. Never forget that your bolters can get it done, too.
--Devastator squad is over-kill. If you wanted to pack a dev squad I would have gone with Heavy Bolters all around. No need for missile launchers at all.
--Dreadnaught was bad call, too. DE pack way too much anti-tank for him to do anything.

[size=12pt][b]Dark Eldars' List[/size]
--Haemies on bikes with destructors are sweet against marines. Use IC to protect and throw down a template that has a 50% chance to ignore power armor.
--Ravager with 3x dissies is bad news for Marines. Some decent anti-tank should have this thing stunned all game. Target priority one
--3 Raider squads for some decent assault. Should have gone with splinter cannons to keep moving and a blaster for a pot shot on the charge. "Nasty CC thing" is a sybarite with an agoniser and a ccw to give 4 attacks that wound on 4's always.
--Last squad is a sniper squad, good for anti-tank.

[size=12pt][b]Turn One[/size]
Good idea making the Dark Eldar go first, and poor, poor execution by him. Although you said he was fairly new so he probably hadn't developed strong tactics yet.

The better idea for the Dark Eldar would have been to hang back, drop the Dreadnaught (at least) and pump some power into the devastator squad. Probably the Ravager firing maximum blasts towards it to try to get some shots off before it got downed owing to the massed anti-tank on the Marine side.

I would have ignored the foodslogging warriors completely. Two Dark Lances would have been coming out of that squad, not much else. Should have concentrated on the raiders.

Good job taking down the ravager, it would have caused mighty problems. Haemies second behind the ravager, so good calls!

[size=12pt][b]Turn Two[/size]
Destructors ripping up marines... not too much you can do about that. Got lucky with the dreadnaught so good for you. The charge may seem silly to people reading, but the weapon the squad leader is carrying always glances on a six. Nifty weapon.

Bad call for the DE player to charge with his Haemy. Maybe he didn't want it getting shot, but his destructor is worth more if he's not in combat.

Solid turn two by Marines

[size=12pt][b]Turn Three[/size]
Fwoo... bad bad luck for the Dark Eldar player here.

[size=12pt][b]Comments on comments :P[/size]
I would never expect a Dread to survive like that against Dark Eldar. My DE army would have crushed it twice over in the first turn. An average 1000 point DE army would be packing around 5-6 Dark Lances, which is enough to drop almost 1 of any tank in the game every turn. (I think it's more like 8 shots to the kill, but meh; six is enough to at least mess it up)

An experienced Dark Eldar player trashes Marines on most days. This game was mostly decided by you forcing him to take first turn and odd terrain set up. Normally he would have hidden his skimmers and forced you to take first turn and then thrown down 20+d6 assault moves if you moved anything forward.

The lists were rather unbalanced and made for a rather unfair game for the DE, IMO.

For the record, all of those haemonculae are separate independant characters. Tell him that. They should be separate so things like that can't happen. Also make sure he knows to take down dreadnaughts and the like early as they can be a pain later on.

Overall not too bad of a showing by the DE player, just losing to a more experienced player. As he plays a few more games he should do better. I'd like to see another write up against the same player in about 2-3 months
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Old 19 Nov 2006, 05:43   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: [BatRep] Suffer Not The Alien To Live, 1000pts Marines vs Dark Eldar

Yea my list was packing a lot of big guns, overcompensation on my part. Never fought Dark Eldar before and I was expecting a lot of skimmers who had to die and die fast. I made sure the Ravager went down and took as many pot shots at the Haemonculus as possible. The charge was meant to keep them alive and would have worked if the serg and remaining marine hadnt been able to get into base with them and crush them.

As for heavy bolters and missil launchers, I have missil launchers a plenty and only one heavy bolter so it limited my choices greatly. The Dread was also in there to fill points. I had at first had my assault squad and chaplain but I was expectng a 2+ invulnerable archon of some kind or something so figured Id rather put the 300 points or so to more guns instead. The guy did well hiding aside from the Ravager and one Haemonculus the majority of my army couldnt see anything so it dictated what I fired on.

The board was also wierd, I dislike playing on it. Working out how the various area terrain and LOS functions on that board is enough to make you want to pull your hair out. The lists were a bit unbalanced, it was me overcompensating and cobling together an odd list. I didnt expect the Dreadnaught to survive either, I expected one volley of fire then destruction, somehow it lived though and the Sybarite couldnt roll any 6s for some reason. Amazed me but it stayed alive so that was nice.

As a note on the Haemonculus I know they were all seperate which makes them a pain to down, the thing with the dread was all 3 were too close and by charging the center he could get into combat with all 3 because his base touched them too, then with 3 attacks one could be allocated to each and as luck would have it they all fell to their respective blows. One hit, one kill for all 3. Just plain perfect. The only reason I decided to go and offer my advice was the Marine player was a noob aswell and I figured a tie would do both a nice little moral boost more than a defeat would. Managed to work that out so alls good.

Im well aware Dark Eldar are nasty, the reason I decided to hunker down and make sure he had to come to me on my terms or in other words when in doubt and without knowledge of the enemy prepare for every possibility. I dunno why he is having so much trouble winning his list doesnt seem to have any obvious flaws in it and his execution isnt terrible he has a grasp of tactics, I suppose its down to bad luck and far more experienced players who can make the most of his every mistake. Ah well he is getting better and Ill deffinetly be playing him again... just not for a few weeks. Defeat teaches more than victory does and most of his defeats have been due to bad luck where my luck seems to be turning around finally.
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Old 19 Nov 2006, 14:57   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: [BatRep] Suffer Not The Alien To Live, 1000pts Marines vs Dark Eldar

Here, print this out and bring it to him:

x3 Haemonculus on jetbikes with some kinda nasty flamer thing
Ravager with 3 cannon things
Warrior Squad (10), some nasty assault weapon, dark lance and cc thing
-Raider Transport, dark lance
Warrior Squad (10), same equipment as the first... whatever that is
-Raider Transport, dark lance
Warrior Squad (10), same kit
-Raider Transport, dark lance
Warrior Squad (10), dark lance x2

Your list doesn't have any flaws that a newer player or a player not experienced with Dark Eldar would find. However, I've been playing them a long, long time and have amassed a record of 75-12-4 with them over the years; so take what I say as law! Just kidding, just think about some of these things:

Jetbike Haemonculae with destructors can be a wonderful addition to any army; however, seeing as you are playing 1000 points, you must realize that it is going to be a fourth of your army, or close enough. They can be a great utility unit in larger games, but when you don't have anything else to draw the fire off of them most of the time, you run into serious issues. Jetbike Haemonculae don't fit into Raider Park armies, in general terms. One good shot from a 6s+ weapon and he pops, maybe getting a 5+ invul on his way down if you boosted the turn before, although that's doubtful seeing as you'll want to be flaming stuff all the time.

Instead of your Haemonculae I would instead suggest twin Dracons. Nothing fancy, just two Dracons that can reek some havoc across the board. Give them a Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Combat Drugs, and Plasma Grenades. I think that comes out to 87 points, but my codex is at the shop right now, so I'm not sure. Either way, it runs a bit cheaper than your haemonculae and will do a bit better than they will.

One thing that they allow you to do is pull a first turn charge if you know you're going to lose quite badly. Mount them in your warrior squads, move the raider up 12"(never move raiders 24", I'll get to that later after the list work) and dismount the Dracon 2". Not the unit, just the Dracon. Fleet him a further d6", and then use combat drugs to assault 12". That gives you a 26+d6(27-32") charge range. That's up to 32 inches of charging, which is flat out ridiculous. Expect some people to get mad at you for doing it, but if you need to do it to tie up a devastator squad, so what? Do it. It's his fault if he deployed his devastator squad that close to the line. Just be careful pulling off this tactic. If he deployed more than about 3" behind his line, you might not make it.

Moving down to your Warrior squads:
If you go with the twin Dracon choice, you need to bump all your squads down to 8 Warriors to give room for the Dracon. I say 8 and not 9 because 9 is inefficient for scoring units. It takes 5 casualties for an 8 man unit to be non-scoring, and it takes 5 casualties for a 9 man unit to be non-scoring; And one warrior isnít going to do much.

Beyond that, if you give a squad a sybarite with an agoniser (as you always should, unless youíre going the stationary route with the unit) they should always bring assault weapons, not dark lances. A splinter cannon and a blaster are the best choices for an assault unit.

This is my typical Warrior unit:
5 Warriors
1 Warrior with Splinter Cannon
1 Warrior with Blaster
Sybarite with Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Plasma Grenades
Raider with a Disintegrator

Now letís go over all of this:
There are 8 models total, which I find to be ideal for warriors. Maximum scoring potential for the unit and still a good size to protect your special guys. The worst mistake a person will make is taking down 5 warriors and leaving you a warrior with a blaster, a splinter cannon, and your sybarite. Probably will never happen, but some people are stupid.

Splinter Cannon and Blaster are taken because they are the best weapons point for point. Shredders rarely perform how they can. A good tournament player can make sure you only hit one, maybe two, models with your shredder. A blaster will pop any model in the game with relative ease, and provides extra anti-tank if it gets desperate.

Sybarites come stock with splinter pistols, so make sure you donít pay for it again. Agonisers are just nifty because they mean a little sybarite can down a Wraithlord. Watch your opponent the first time you pull that one off. Remember: one out of four attacks from a sybarite wounds anything. On the charge you can expect to get one off of him, from there itís more like 3/4 chance, but itís still good.

I prefer a Raider with a Disintegrator because getting anti-tank with DE is amazingly easy. You can pick it up pretty much anywhere, so thereís no worry about getting more. Itís a cheap upgrade and can earn itís points back a lot easier at low points than a Dark Lance can. It higher point games(1500+) youíll want to switch back to Dark Lances for anti-tank power.

The other type of Warrior squad youíre packing is the 10 Warrior with 2 dark lances, affectionately known as a Sniper Squad. They can be quite nifty, however, Iíve switched over to another unit lately:

5 Warriors
1 Warriors with Dark Lances
Raider with Dark Lance

6 Warriors for scoring reasons and youíve got one stationary Dark Lance and one mobile Dark Lance for 13 points more than a sniper squad. The key thing to do with this squad is to keep them in the raider and move them up like they were a normal unit. It seems rather counter-intuitive at first, but think about it: You donít have to tell your opponent whatís in your Raiders, and if he downs a ghost raider rather than your 200 point assault Raider, you just saved a LOT of points. Move 12Ē turn one, fire your Raider-lance, and second turn either move back and dismount or dismount where you are and shoot (bad field positioning usually, but you get off an extra shot)

Another thing to think about is just a foot-slogging unit with 2 cannons and 2 blasters. Never underestimate how much power that can pack. 8 4/5 shots a turn can really get on peopleís nerves, and itís still really cheap @110 points.

Your final weapon is your Ravager. Iíve always been a huge fan of the three disintegrator Ravager, but a lot of people try to promote the 1 DL, 2 dissie ravager. Having the power to decide to unleash 3 7/2 blasts if you donít move is too powerful to pass up. Say your opponent deep strikes some terminators in a place you know is going to be key? Blam. They get blasted by an average of 2 templates which will each easily get 4 terminators because they just deepstriked(is that even a word? Deepstruck? Deepstriked?) the turn before and they will be crammed together. And being able to move 12Ē and fire 1 maximum and two sustained is great, too. Iíve toyed with the idea of night shields on my Ravagers, but too many armies have 48Ē anti-tank now that itís not worth it.

My other problem with this is list is that you donít have any Wyches! Whatís with that?! The single best model in the entire game (In my opinion at least. I mean think about it, what unit is that good at shooting (blasters) anti tank (Haywires+goblite of spite ever drops a monolith!) and assault (wych weapons) and still costs so little!) has been left out of your army. Tsk tsk. One thing I would say about Wyches is that the Succubus should be given a punisher and tormentor helm over the Agoniser simply because if she gets the +1 strength drug, you have a 5s succubus, which can be fun!

Just realized I hadnít talked about why to bring Plasma Grenades. They are a great tool because your squad leader is your only real combat power, the others are really just pinging shots off of armor all day, and you never want your combat power swinging last. Plasma Grenades ensure they get their attacks off in an orderly fashion.

So! Hereís my idea for what you can use as a list:

Dracon
--Punisher
--Tormentor Helm
-Combat Drugs
-Plasma Grenades
@87

Dracon
--Punisher
--Tormentor Helm
-Combat Drugs
-Plasma Grenades
@87

5 Wyches with Wych Weapons
2 Wyches with Blasters & Wych Weapons
Wych Succubus with Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Wych Weapons, Plasma grenades
Raider with Disintegrator
@213

5 Warriors
1 Warrior with Splinter Cannon
1 Warrior with Blaster
Sybarite with Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Plasma Grenades
Raider with Disintegrator
@167

5 Warriors
1 Warrior with Splinter Cannon
1 Warrior with Blaster
Sybarite with Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Plasma Grenades
Raider with Disintegrator
@167

Ravager with 3 Disintegrators
@120

This list only totals out to 841, leaving you 159 points to do whatever you want to do with. Another Ravager could be given thought to, maybe jam in another Warrior squad, although youíre going to have to skimp somewhere with it, whether it be the number of warriors (probably where Iíd get the points from, itíd make the squad 151 points for 6 warriors instead of 8 ) or you could knock off 2 wyches from the wych unit, giving you 185 points to play with and another wych unit being 187 points, you could see if your opponent would allow you to go two over, or drop the plasma grenades off of a character somewhere, or a disintegrator off a raider somewhere, which could be interesting. Iíd be willing to bet if you drop the dissie off of a warrior squadís raider, that raider will go down first.

Pretty much any unit you add to it should be pretty solid. Wyches would give more assault power, so would another mounted warrior squad, a footslogging unit with weapons could be nice for horde supression, or a ghost raider could be useful, or a ravager could be fun. Thereís a lot of things you could do with the list. Play around with it a little and make it your own; itís no fun winning with a list an experienced player handed you.
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