[Vash113]

So Im playing Ultramarines and I have had my eye on the Tyranid Hunter models for a while. They just look... sweet. My question though is are they really useful? Do they make back their points or are they just more expencive bolter marines? Lastly what is a good squad of 6 to take? I was thinking getting 3 blisters and equipping them like this:

Tyranid Hunters (6)
-Sergeant with bolter and power weapon and terminator honors, Heavy bolter, purity seals
Total: 142

For 6 models its not cheap but the Hellfire round looks pretty useful. But they arent cheap and as an elites would they be better than say a squad of Terminators, a Dreadnaught or Veterans?

[bun drone]

For 2 points more than a standard Space Marine, you get... Frag & Krak Grenades, a special attack that bypasses armour saves, Preferred Enemy: Bugs & Counter-Attack, plus the Hellfire Round if you take a Heavy Bolter (a no-brainer), and the Marines are already Purity Sealed. Seems like a very good assault-y/counter-assault-y unit with infantry-killing potential in cc & at range, plus the potential to throw down characters/MCs in a cloud of Krak with some luck.

It's an incredible deal unless you don't want to take a Heavy Bolter squad & are tied to the AP2 weapons on the list. Tyrannic War Vets lose the ability to carry the holy Lascannon & the whore-of-a-weapon, the Plasma Gun.

All that being said... a non-fluffy, competitve/min-max 6-man Tactical Squad with Las/Plas runs 115 points... a 6-man Vet Squad in that Las/Plas configuration is 133 points... so relative to that, the 142 is expensive. You're paying for Terminator Honours with the Tyrannic War Vets that you wouldn't pay in a minimized Las/Plas shooty squad.

As for points-efficiency... why not just take the Las/Plas loadout with Tank-Hunting Veterans or a standard Tactical Squad? I wouldn't touch Elite-type Terminators with a 10-foot pole if I wanted "cheap" and "efficient"... Dreadnoughts need a lot of other support to be good (many tanks as distraction).

It all depends on your army's needs... Tyrannic War Vets seem cool to me, but I haven't used them (yet). Your army may not need them at all.

[arguleon-veq]

As was said in the last post, they are a bargain for what you are getting. Although I'm not fond of the squad set up you suggest.

A 6 man squad will be decimated far too quickly by Nid Dakka/Devil Fex. I really don't see the point in regular power weapons in a list designed to take on Nids, you won't be wounding against the MC's and you don't really need to ignore the saves of the Grunts.

The Hellfire Heavy Bolter really isn't great to be honest, it is actually worse at wounding T6/3+ Save Nids, it would be a little better against T7 Carnifex. But there’s always the chance of a lot of Nids being bunched together.

I think a squad like this would do fine;

8 Vets; 182 Points
Flamer,
Heavy Bolter [Hellfire],
Sarg;
Power Fist.

The Sarg's Fist and squads Krak Grenades allow them to cut down MC's, with the preferred enemy special rule they will devastate things like Warriors, Lictors and Ravenors.

They are as good as a normal Marine squad of the same size at range against Grunts and better in close combat.

They will just sit with your fire-support, cutting down the smaller Nids that will tie up your gun-line [as no doubt a lot of the fire support will come in the form of 6 man Las/Plas squads for MC hunting]. They are then perfectly capable of driving off any smaller Nid units that arrive with their superior combat ability against Nids and their Flamer. They can also take down any Nid MC that hits your line with the Grenades and Power Fist.

If we look at a regular squad that tries to do the same thing;

8 Marines; 161 Points
Heavy Bolter,
Flamer,
Sarg;
Powerfist.

21 Points difference for better combat ability against all size of Nids, FAR better against the Medium and Large Nids. Well worth it IMO.

[Plus, as you've said....they look cool!]

EDIT;

Damn, didn't read the 'squad of 6' part. I'd honestly just fork out the extra few £ for another 2 guys. I don't think 6 is enough to work in their counter-punch role.

Some more numbers;

2.25 wounds caused on a T6 Nid MC when you charge [which should be enough to bring it down if it's charged a Las/Plas gunline]. Compared to the regular squads - 1.85 vs 2+ Sv or 2.04 vs 3+ Sv. Not bad when you consider the cost of each of those wounds.

6.11 wounds caused on Warriors,Lictors,Ravenors. Compared to the regular squads - 3.99 [even less than that if the Warriors have extended Carapace].

7.41 wounds against Grunts, compared to the regular squads - 5.54 wounds. [WS 4].

[Vash113]

Hmm interesting, I dunno if Ill be able to get 8 the shop only has 6 so Ill likely have to stick with them for a while and I am all out of power fists... Ill have to find a way to get some more. Thanks for the replies, that helps quite a bit.

[Tom Norman]

Originally Posted by Vash113

Hmm interesting, I dunno if Ill be able to get 8 the shop only has 6 so Ill likely have to stick with them for a while and I am all out of power fists... Ill have to find a way to get some more. Thanks for the replies, that helps quite a bit.

It's a business; they want to sell products to people like you. Don't just buy up their stock and hope they get some more in, be proactive and actually ask them to! The only reason they have for not getting them in is that they don't trust you, but if you buy up all their blisters and then declare that you want another one then they've got no reason not to! From their perspective, you're practically asking them for the opportunity to give them money. Why would they turn you up? Unless you've messed them about in the past, have you?

[bun drone]

And you don't have to use the models that are specifically "Tyranid Hunters"... with all the plastic bits out there, and especially if you collect Tyranids as well, you'll have all that you need to make a few more Tyrannic War Veterans.

Just stick some Extended Carapace onto some busted up armor... add ScyTals here and there... GW has some tips for making more Tyrannic vets.
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...rs/default.htm

[WhiteNinjaWarlord]

Hi all just wondering wether it would be possible to take tyranid hunters in a trait army.... I am not clear as to whether i can so any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is because i am looking at specifically making an anti tyranid army...

If its not possible i was just wondering would it then be possible for me to say that my marines are "2nd founding Ultramarines" therefore still an Ultramarines descendant who like the Ultramarines are particulary adept at fighting tyranids... And so far Ultramarines have no drawbacks as far as we know, therefore i am technically not skipping out on the bad parts of ultramarines to take the good ones... Lol it would be interesting to see if this was viable cause i had a rather interesting list waiting, but if not oh well...


White Ninja Warlord

[Vash113]

Ultramarines are the only ones who can take Tyranic War Veterans and Ultramarines have no traits. A Trait army is not an Ultramarine force technically. I do not think you can use Nid Veterans in an army with traits.

You could use a vanilla list as an Ultramarines second founding and then use Honor Guard and Nid Vets perhaps, I dont see a problem with that but I do not think its legal to take Ultramarine characters or Ultramarine specifc units in a trait army.

[Tom Norman]

Originally Posted by WhiteNinjaWarlord

Hi all just wondering wether it would be possible to take tyranid hunters in a trait army.... I am not clear as to whether i can so any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is because i am looking at specifically making an anti tyranid army...

If its not possible i was just wondering would it then be possible for me to say that my marines are "2nd founding Ultramarines" therefore still an Ultramarines descendant who like the Ultramarines are particulary adept at fighting tyranids... And so far Ultramarines have no drawbacks as far as we know, therefore i am technically not skipping out on the bad parts of ultramarines to take the good ones... Lol it would be interesting to see if this was viable cause i had a rather interesting list waiting, but if not oh well...

You are skipping the 'bad parts' and just taking the advantages because, as Vash said, one of the 'bad parts' concerning Ultramarines is that they are a codex chapter and as such cannot take traits. They are in fact the definitive codex chapter, so it would be extremely unfluffy to permit them any divergences. You could easily make an Ultramarines successor chapter, seeing as most chapters use the Ultramarines gene seed anyway, but in order to take units unique to the Ultramarines your chapter must follow the exact same rules (in much the same way as the Flesh Tearers must follow the same rules as the Blood Angels in order to call themselves a 'true' successor chapter and as such, gain access to the unique units).

Besides, Ultramarines have Tyrannic war veterans because they fought a major war with the Tyranids (unsurprisingly) and have surviving veterans from said conflict with hive fleet Behemoth. It has nothing to do with their genetic makeup; they're not just naturally adept at killing bugs, it's just because some of them have extensive experience in that field. A successor chapter wouldn't have Tyrannic war veterans just because they are affiliated with the Ultramarines.

However, you're free to build your army as you see fit. So long as your opponent doesn't mind, you could add anything. You could have a Chaplain riding a captured Heirophant if your opponent was ok with it!

However, for a 'legal' bug-hunting choice, might I suggest a Deathwatch kill team?

[WhiteNinjaWarlord]

Lol Hello Tom....

I was wondering how long it would take before you answered the question... But many thanks. I get the general idea that i can't do it so therefore i am just going to make it a non trait army (XD saves me a huge 36 points making them a non trait army)... I'll post the army list in the army list section under "2000 point Tyranid Slaughterers" so you may feel free to critique... Anyways its good to bow our heads in respect to someone with greater knowledge....

Cheers

White Ninja Warlord >