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Blood Raven Leadership?
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Old 02 Nov 2006, 05:55   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Blood Raven Leadership?

I had a small question based on the fact that you can, at most, have two HQ characters. Now, with all of the talk of Librarians within the Blood Ravens, I thought that there would be 1 Librarian and 1 Chaplain. However, do they need a Chapter Master(captain figure) or can I get away with replacing him with a Librarian? I was thinking 1 Librarian and 1 Chaplain, here's why; the Librarian is everywhere within the chapter, it's one of the main fluff points and the Chaplain is less about tactical leadership and more about moral and spiritual leadership. Every chapter needs a chaplain but isn't it possible that the Librarian took over the chapter oversight? After all, there is always talk of the Blood Ravens making perfect plans based upon the Librarian, doesn't it make sense that the Librarian would be a better tactician than that Captain? After all, the Captain tries to obtain a result while a Librarian crafts a result... Or I could be way off. Any opinions? Thanks...

Crimson Hawk
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Old 02 Nov 2006, 07:06   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here...

You seem to have confused your army list with your army fluff...

Every Company has a Captain, a Chaplain, a Librarian, an Apothecary, a Standard Bearer and probably a Techmarine as well. Just because you can't necessarily field them all in your list doesn't mean they don't exist...
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Old 02 Nov 2006, 15:22   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

He means that, since there are more librarians that they would gain the abilities of the chapter master... it sounds a little farfetched but I suppose a lot of things GW do don't really make sense either...
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Old 02 Nov 2006, 15:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

Is the question your trying to ask this:

Q:Is it ok to have a librarian and a chaplain leading my army and not have a Captain/Master?

A: Yes!

That's perfectly fine, you only need to have one HQ choice in your force and can have a maximum of 2.

However if you (for some unfathomable reason) want to have all three Space Marine HQ types in one army that's also posible!

How?

Because you can attach a librarian or Chaplain to a command squad! The whole squad then only counts as one HQ choice.

So you could for example take a Master w/ command squad and attached librarian (1 HQ choice) and an independant chaplain w/ jump pack leading an assault squad.
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Old 03 Nov 2006, 03:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

For Blood Ravens I suggest the Master and a Librarian. The Librarian for fluff reasons mostly and the Master for the leadership boost.

A Space Marine army does not have to include a commander but certainly can and you can have (if I remember right) six characters in your army. Two main HQs each with a bodyguard and two more attatched characters to each. Though that is highly expencive points wise and a waste generally in anything less than 3000-4000pt games.
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Old 03 Nov 2006, 15:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

First off, thank you for all of the responses already. I suppose that I should clarify my original question. While I do know that you are only required to have one HQ selection, and that you can have any combo of the three, my question was in fact based around the armies fluff. I am designing my Blood Ravens army (actually an offshoot called the "Crimson Hawks") to exemplify the army fluff in the list. Since I have not read any of the fluff, I was wondering what you guys had to say. So, while it is possible to have any combination of the three HQ choices, I am trying to find out whether or not I can put a Librarian in the eadership role accompanied by a Chaplain. Remember, the army list should be an abbreviated version of the chapter list. So, if there is not tactical squads then they would be in the elite of the entire chapter. If the HQ is a Librarian accompanied by a Chaplain, then I am saying that the Librarians are the commander/leader/master figures while the traditional Chapter Masters are not a part of this chapter. Isn't it feasible to have a Librarian be the chapter master? After all, they are just human beings with exceptional psychic abilities, right?

Crimson Hawk

P.S. The only reason that I am playing an offshoot chapter is so that I could change the major disadvantage. Other than that it is a Blood Ravens chapter.
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Old 03 Nov 2006, 16:46   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

No reason why not I suppose. He's only a Librarian in terms of rules, just like a chapter master is only a commander in the codex. If you want to field a model you consider to be the master of the of the Crimson Hawks, but you don't want him to use the actual rules for the commander, then that's no problem. There's no reason to assume a Chapter master can't have exceptional psychic abilities (except that he might not live long enough to attain such honour), and you're completely free to use a librarian in place of a commander on the tabletop.

You keep referring to him as a Librarian in charge of the Chapter, but that's all a Chapter master is. The only difference is that yours has psychic abilities. So yeah, that's absolutely fine and in keeping with fluff as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 03 Nov 2006, 19:53   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

You dont have to play the Blood Ravens with those traits. Flesh over steel makes no sense for the Blood Ravens, if anything they seem to be a highly mechanized force.

The Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens holds the duel role of Chapter Master and Chief Librarian so using a Librarian to represent a captain or what not is perfectly acceptable for their fluff and fluff aside there is nothing saying you cant do it in the first place.

I would simly advise playing Blood Ravens without any traits. I dont like the trait system its fairly unbalanced and the traits listed for the famous chapters dont make much sense in some cases. But you can play those chapters without traits, no need to call them a second founding chapter. Especially since for the Blood Ravens it doesnt really fit with their fluff.

Some GW people may complain but you could also always use other traits with the Blood Ravens. The book says you cant but I don tknow anyone who would fuss over it.
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Old 05 Nov 2006, 02:03   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
No reason why not I suppose. He's only a Librarian in terms of rules, just like a chapter master is only a commander in the codex. If you want to field a model you consider to be the master of the of the Crimson Hawks, but you don't want him to use the actual rules for the commander, then that's no problem. There's no reason to assume a Chapter master can't have exceptional psychic abilities (except that he might not live long enough to attain such honour), and you're completely free to use a librarian in place of a commander on the tabletop.

You keep referring to him as a Librarian in charge of the Chapter, but that's all a Chapter master is. The only difference is that yours has psychic abilities. So yeah, that's absolutely fine and in keeping with fluff as far as I'm concerned.
Thank you Tom. It's been a while since I saw you on here. Thanks for the input!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
You dont have to play the Blood Ravens with those traits. Flesh over steel makes no sense for the Blood Ravens, if anything they seem to be a highly mechanized force.

The Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens holds the duel role of Chapter Master and Chief Librarian so using a Librarian to represent a captain or what not is perfectly acceptable for their fluff and fluff aside there is nothing saying you cant do it in the first place.

I would simly advise playing Blood Ravens without any traits. I dont like the trait system its fairly unbalanced and the traits listed for the famous chapters dont make much sense in some cases. But you can play those chapters without traits, no need to call them a second founding chapter. Especially since for the Blood Ravens it doesnt really fit with their fluff.

Some GW people may complain but you could also always use other traits with the Blood Ravens. The book says you cant but I don tknow anyone who would fuss over it.
Right, Flesh Over Steel is the very reason that I am doing an offshoot chapter. I also think that an offshoot chapter fits better with my replacement Maj. Dis. Ad. (Aspire to Glory) better than true BLood Ravens. The colors will be the same and so will the traits. Some of the time I will be playing without traits but I do like playing with traits in the way the army was designed. For example, with the Blood Ravens, I would use those traits to make an army that can sit back and then have a few well placed units make a decisive turn in the game. Not a standing army of counter attackers. And thank you, this was the very answer to my question; "...The Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens holds the duel role of Chapter Master and Chief Librarian so using a Librarian to represent a captain or what not is perfectly acceptable for their fluff ..."!

Thanks all!

Crimson Hawk
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Old 05 Nov 2006, 03:50   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blood Raven Leadership?

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Originally Posted by Crimson Hawk
Thank you Tom. It's been a while since I saw you on here. Thanks for the input!
But...I'm here every day... *looks confused* ???
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