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Tactica: Heavy Support
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Old 23 Oct 2006, 21:55   #1 (permalink)
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Default Tactica: Heavy Support

Well, the Space Marines have alto of heavy support choices (the most, I believe), and some Neophytes out there might take the wrong thing for the wrong job, so I'm here to help! ;D
The Devastator Squad is not unique, almost every race has one. But the weapons are (save Chaos). What weapon is worth taking and for what job?

Sergeant, Bolter or Close Combat Weapon and Bolt Pistol?
Well, what is your Devastator squad doing, shooting or assaulting... I'll answer for you, take the bolter.

More than 5 members?

I would say yes, a nice number is 7-9, as your Devastator squad will be specialized at what it's doing, they will be targeted, often. More wounds just means that your heavy gunners will live longer.

Heavy Bolter
The cheapest gun you can buy, great for mowing down basic infantry, anything without power armour will fear it. A solid Heavy Bolter squad will pump out 12~ shots per turn, and hitting on 3+ (50%) and wounding on average 2+ (66.6%), basic infantry is going to be ground into a fine paste.

Plasma Cannon
Very expensive, and can over-heat on a 1 (16.6%), but is your heavy infantry annihilator, aside from over-heating, 4 small pie-plates is going to destroy anything without an invulnerable save, take caution, you can lose a pricey and important unit to over-heat alone.

If you take this, take a Razorback. It is very effective at close range, but only close range. Foot slogging will take too long, and a Razorback with a Lascannon will help out. I would stay away from this weapon, but if you can make back the points, go for it!

Missile Launcher
Eh, not a very impressive weapon. If you want your unit to kill tanks, take a Lascannon, if you want your unit to kill infantry, take a Heavy Bolter. Guns need specialization, which this gun does not have.

Incredible, expensive, but incredible. With this high a strength and that long a range, tanks are going to die (his, that is... ), he will make this squad his top priority though, so take some extra wounds. When a Land Raider drops to your squad, prepare to laugh in triumph!

Devastators are a very versatile unit, capable of grinding infantry to busting tanks, it isn't hard to find a place in your army for a squad of these guys, overall a great unit.
*Examine* It's a siege tank!

Whats so good about the Vindicator?
Well, it has a strength 10 large pie plate weapon, with a decent range. Has a good frontal armour to.

Whats so bad about the Vindicator?
It has a bad side and rear armour, making it very vulnerable to any jump troops with melta-bombs. The decent range is only decent, meaning you have to get close enough for most high strength weapons to destroy it, and since it has a strength 10 large pie plate weapon, it will be high priority on your opponents list, it will probably never make it to his battle lines.

What upgrades to take?
Smoke Launchers are probably the only thing to take, nearly assuring you will make it to his battle lines to get off at least a shot of your cannon.

I'm not very impressed by its survivability, even with Smoke Launchers. All you bought this vehicle for was that kick butt cannon, right? Well it can still be blown off, gee great. The range is mediocre, leaving it vulnerable to most weapons. But it does have that shiny Demolisher Cannon... it has its good days and bad days, I don't take one of these, but you certainly can if you find a nice strategy for it.
Predator Annihilator
The twin-linked Lascannon variant of the Predator series.

Lascannon sponsons or Heavy Bolter sponsons?
Well, it is a good idea to keep your heavy support dedicated, so I would pick Lascannon sponsons, but if you want to lose a bit of effectiveness for leniency, take the Heavy Bolter's, when the tanks drop you can still kill infantry.

What upgrade to take?
"Power of the Machine Spirit" sounds like a good upgrade, it is very expensive, only take it if your are positive it will come in handy.

A great specialized tank, good range, good frontal armour (what they will hopefully be shooting at from 48" away ), and a decent point cost. It isn't hard to find room in your list for one of these bad boys.
Predator Destructor
The Autocannon variant of the Predator Series.

Lascannon sponsons or Heavy Bolter sponsons?
I would take Heavy Bolter sponsons, you take the route of mincing anything short of Power Armour. And a bonus, they are the same range, mean you won't only shoot some of your weapons. I would stay away from the Lascannon on this one *points to previous statements*.

What upgrade to take?
Extra Armour, you need to move up closer to get into range of the units you want to kill.

Good specialization, after you have killed the infantry you wanted to, the Autocannon can take out most tanks.
The Space Marines only artillery. It kills infantry good like most artillery does.

Whirlwinds come with indirect fire, I would use that to your advantage. Put your Whirlwind behind cover and fire away!

Vengeance Missiles
Anything that left its Power Armour at home is in for it. I take Vengeance missiles every time, just because I don't know much about Castellan. They seem effective enough, but they can't outright kill someone because of brute strength.

Castellan Missiles
As for Castellan Missiles have a use with mobile, non skimmer armies. They are mostly used to either deny movement areas (For example Tau and their JSJ on the suits.) While the uses are indeed more limited, they can be a real thorn in someones side if used properly. Though it seems best if you dedicate two whirlwinds to mining if you take the Castellan missiles. - Tanarin.

What upgrades to take?
None, chances are you will be out of site.

Indirect fire, and a pie plate. Good vehicle for how little a point cost it is. It is hard to find a place for these in your list most of the time, compared to other units and vehicles.
Land Raider
The most powerful armour, transporting capacity, great weapons... hello utility vehicle, too bad its expensive as hell...

The weapons.
The Land Raider comes with a hull-mounted, twin-linked Heavy Bolter and 2 twin-linked sponson Lascannons.

The Land Raider as a transport.
The Land Raider can carry up to 10 Space Marines or 5 Space Marine Terminators. Should you take a Terminator squad, you can transport it in the safest transport in the game.

The Land Raiser as a gun platform.
A all 14-armour vehicle as a gun platform isn't that bad of an investment. It sports anti-infantry and anti-tank, making it versatile, while not specialized, all weapons are twin-linked, almost guaranteeing you a kill.

What upgrades to take?
Depends what your using it for, if it is a transport take Smoke Launchers and Extra Armour, if it is a gun platform, dozer blades *could* be a good investment, not saying they will be though.

Among the most heavily armoured tanks in the game, nice guns, I would say this is a good vehicle, but it is VERY expensive, it may not make its points back considering it will be among the highest priority to your opponent.
Land Raider Crusader
A heavily armoured vehicle designed for the transport of the heaviest armoured troops in the game... mmm toasty.

The Weapons
Hull-mounted twin-linked Assault Cannon, a hull-mounted Multi-Melta and a pair of sponson-mounted Hurricane Bolter's (3 twin-linked Bolter's).

The Land Raiser Crusader as a transport.
Strap your Assault Terminators in for the ride because they are going to bolt out and strike simultaneously with their Thunder Hammers, and first with their Lighting Claws. The Land Raiser Crusader has Frag Grenade launchers so when you storm out to assault you strike first in close combat. And the super armour it was given by the machine god, almost ensures it will make it there.

The Land Raider Crusader as a gun platform.
Say no to drugs kids! And to this! The Land Raider Crusader is not worth it as a gun platform, it has a short range for most of its weapons, and is so expensive, it may not make its points back.

What upgrades to take?
Smoke Launchers and Extra Armour, hopefully you are using it as a transport (its intended purpose).

The Land Raiser Crusader is a good transport, for Terminators. If you are using it for Space Marines you might as well get a Rhino. It isn't that powerful in terms of guns, and is more expensive than a normal Land Raider. I don't have room in my list for this (I don't use Terminators often), you might though, so have at it!
Well that's my guide on what to use for what, when, where, and how! Hope it helped you recruit, for the Emperor!

If you find a spelling or grammatical error in one of my posts, message me, I will give you a cookie.

If you need help with a Tau army list, go ahead and pm me, always willing to help.
The_Greater_Good is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 22:19   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tactica: Heavy Support

Your statistics are a bit off. 3+ is a 66% chance, 2+ a 83% chance.

Even power armoured troops can fear the heavy bolter. Force enough saves and they'll fail some of them.

Plasma and Lascannons are far to expensive to be effectively used. An 8-man squad would cost a whopping 260 points, and a bit of concentrated firepower (or a fast assault) will get pretty costly.

Missile Launchers are actually great in Dev squads. They're concentrated enough to take down medium-armoured tanks, are cheap (only 5 points more than a heavy bolter), and can mow down light infantry like plasma cannons can mow down heavy infantry. They'll also pretty easily kill 3 MEq's per turn. Really, they're the most flexible weapon available, and one of the cheapest. This is why they're nearly always taken.

Consider Power of the Machine Spirit for the Vindicator. With it, you can move and fire the cannon even if stunned. This is great, since ordnance negates ork-like BS. Extra armour is a good buy too.

Heavy bolters are good for flexibility and mobility; but lascannon sponsons are great for tank-hunting. It's pretty well a toss-up.
Don't buy any upgrades, except maybe smokes and/or extra armour. Anything else is far too expensive for a rather fragile tank (and yes, it is pretty fragile).

Lascannons on the destructor take the opposite effect as heavy bolters on the Annihilator. This forces it to stay still. However, it's not much more expensive than a bare Annihilator (5 points more), has more lascannons and an autocannon (which is great for light tanks/skimmers). Consider this as a cheap alternative to the Annihilator.

That's all I'll say for now...

"In the nightmare future of the far future there is only war." - Apocalypse
O Y Montyr is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 23:20   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tactica: Heavy Support

Also the Frag Assault Launchers don't make you go first. They count as frag grenades which raise the Initiative of the attackers to 10 but only if they are charging a unit in cover. So that means the two units would go at the same time except for Power Fists or Thunder Hammers which always go at Initiative 1.
ThatGuy is offline  
Old 23 Oct 2006, 23:29   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tactica: Heavy Support

Oh and as for upgrades to take on a whirlwind, it can get expensive but power of the machine spirit is great here, since even if you happen to get stunned you can still fire it and not be worried about BS. Plus by the wording of machine spirit, you can even fire it up to 6 inches, which is a real nice bonus.

As for Castellan Missiles have a use with mobile, non skimmer armies. They are mostly used to either deny movement areas (For example Tau and their JSJ on the suits.) While the uses are indeed more limited, they can be a real thorn in someones side if used properly. Though it seems best if you dedicate two whirlwinds to mining if you take the Castellan missiles.

tanarin is offline  
Old 24 Oct 2006, 00:51   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tactica: Heavy Support

Thought we already had one of these. It's listed in one of Stam's stickies.

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