[Bustafer Jones]

Can a Terminator Sgt. take terminator honors? Technically he already has them (hence the armor, extra attack, Ld 9, and access to the armory) but it doesn't SAY that he has them, nor is it an optional upgrade in his entry, so RAW says it is allowed. What do you guys say.

Keep in mind that any HQ model must already have terminator honors (why are they in command if they aren't good enough for termie armor?) but that they may select it from the armory.

A side question: Terminator armour comes with terminator honors (what a deal!) can you also buys honors again? (i doubt it, but let's spark some debate)

Final question: Say you buy a vet sarge some terminator armor. It comes with Honors. Can you just pay XX points and make him a vet with termie armor, or do you have to pay YY pts to make him a vet and give hima rmory acess, and then XX pts more to give him the armor. And can you even give a vet sarge termonator armor when he is in a tac squad?

Man, I am just bursting with questions today.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Originally Posted by Bustafer Jones

Can a Terminator Sgt. take terminator honors? Technically he already has them (hence the armor, extra attack, Ld 9, and access to the armory) but it doesn't SAY that he has them, nor is it an optional upgrade in his entry, so RAW says it is allowed. What do you guys say.

No, Terminator armour provides Terminator Honours and wargear can NOT be selected twice. This is specified in the Wargear entry in your Space Marine Codex.

Originally Posted by Bustafer Jones

Keep in mind that any HQ model must already have terminator honors (why are they in command if they aren't good enough for termie armor?) but that they may select it from the armory.

No they do not. They may take Terminator Honours but they do NOT automatically come with them.

Originally Posted by Bustafer Jones

A side question: Terminator armour comes with terminator honors (what a deal!) can you also buys honors again? (i doubt it, but let's spark some debate)

If you buy Terminator Armour you can NOT purchase Terminator Honours again unless you needed to in order to get the Terminator armour in the first place. (Note that this doesn't provide +2 attacks, just the usual +1)

Originally Posted by Bustafer Jones

Final question: Say you buy a vet sarge some terminator armor. It comes with Honors. Can you just pay XX points and make him a vet with termie armor, or do you have to pay YY pts to make him a vet and give him armory acess, and then XX pts more to give him the armor. And can you even give a vet sarge termonator armor when he is in a tac squad?

A sergeant in a Tactical squad must purchase Terminator Honours before he may purchase the armour. Yes he may be equipped with Terminator armour when in a Tactical squad, No he does not gain +2 attacks, No he may not purchase Terminator Honours again.

[Bustafer Jones]

Wow, ok, that answers that. Thanks.

I know that the HQ characters don't litterally come with Term. Honors, I just mean that you can't rise to that level without them, so it doesn't make sense that we can purchase them from the armory. I know that there is a lot in this game that doesn't make sense, such as having to buy honors for a Sgt. before you can buy term. Armor, which comes with them. And, are you sure you can buy Term. armor for vet Sgts, since They already have term. honors. I think you can, of course, but the rules can be a little too open to interpretation sometimes, or be a little too narrow minded in other ways.

[Falstead]

Very simple answer to this question.

Do terminator honours have a small "T" next to them in the armoury?

No they don't.

So that means models in terminator armour cannot select them.

Since a tactical squad veteran seargant has terminator honours, he can't take the armour, because it is not compatible with it.

[Bustafer Jones]

Good point, Falstead. best point yet, in fact.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Originally Posted by Bustafer Jones

Wow, ok, that answers that. Thanks.

I know that the HQ characters don't litterally come with Term. Honors, I just mean that you can't rise to that level without them, so it doesn't make sense that we can purchase them from the armory.

You CAN take them from the armoury and they gain all benefits. I did say this in my first post.

Originally Posted by Scout Sergeant Mkoll

No they do not. They may take Terminator Honours but they do NOT automatically come with them.

Originally Posted by Bustafer Jones

And, are you sure you can buy Term. armor for vet Sgts, since They already have term. honors. I think you can, of course, but the rules can be a little too open to interpretation sometimes, or be a little too narrow minded in other ways.

Sorry, my mistake with this one. I've re-read my codex and if you read it there is only 1 points cost which leads me to assume that single wounds models may not take Terminator Armour. This is backed up by the trait "Scions of Mars" stating that the points cost for Terminator Armour is ammended to 25/15 and that this DOES mean that single wound models can take Terminator Armour. So without Scions of Mars a sergeant may not take Terminator Armour. My mistake with this one, I apologize.

[Tom Norman]

Originally Posted by Scout Sergeant Mkoll

You CAN take them from the armoury and they gain all benefits. I did say this in my first post.

Stop. Re-read it and think about what he's saying. Hell, he never even said HQ character can't take Termie honours anyway. :

He's talking about it from a fluff perspective; ie. how could you rise to the rank of Captain without ever attaining Terminator honours?

Originally Posted by Scout Sergeant Mkoll

Sorry, my mistake with this one. I've re-read my codex and if you read it there is only 1 points cost which leads me to assume that single wounds models may not take Terminator Armour. This is backed up by the trait "Scions of Mars" stating that the points cost for Terminator Armour is ammended to 25/15 and that this DOES mean that single wound models can take Terminator Armour. So without Scions of Mars a sergeant may not take Terminator Armour. My mistake with this one, I apologize.

So by the same token one-wound characters can't take bolt pistols, storm bolters or teleport homers either then? All the weapons and wargear are available to all models with access to the armoury (unless otherwise stated). As stated in the 'Armoury' section: "Where two points costs are shown, the first applies to models with 2 or more wounds, the second to models with 1 wound."

[Olannon]

So by the same token one-wound characters can't take bolt pistols, storm bolters or teleport homers either then? All the weapons and wargear are available to all models with access to the armoury (unless otherwise stated). As stated in the 'Armoury' section: "Where two points costs are shown, the first applies to models with 2 or more wounds, the second to models with 1 wound."

Dude, this one is simple. Re-read it please:

"Where two points costs are shown, the first applies to models with 2 or more wounds, the second to models with 1 wound."

How on earth could you apply this when there is simply 1 points cost shown? It is really simple; when 2 points costs are shown it applies like this and like that. When there is only shown 1 cost it applies to everyone.

If you're simply trying to get something rolling here, please leave it be.

He's talking about it from a fluff perspective; ie. how could you rise to the rank of Captain without ever attaining Terminator honours?

This is interesting; not to even mention the rank of Master. Probably has to do with the game balance I suppose; don't see any other reason. Have you ever heard of a Master that hasn't previously been granted the rank of terminator?

~Olannon

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Originally Posted by Tom Norman

Stop.* Re-read it and think about what he's saying.* Hell, he never even said HQ character can't take Termie honours anyway.* *:

He's talking about it from a fluff perspective; ie. how could you rise to the rank of Captain without ever attaining Terminator honours?

In which case I apologize for incorrect interpretation.

Originally Posted by Tom Norman

So by the same token one-wound characters can't take bolt pistols, storm bolters or teleport homers either then?* All the weapons and wargear are available to all models with access to the armoury (unless otherwise stated).* As stated in the 'Armoury' section: "Where two points costs are shown, the first applies to models with 2 or more wounds, the second to models with 1 wound."

No, that's not what I said. The trait specifies that it allows single wound models to take Terminator Armour. which I believe to mean that without this trait single wound models may NOT take Terminator Armour.

[Tom Norman]

Originally Posted by Scout Sergeant Mkoll

The trait specifies that it allows single wound models to take Terminator Armour. which I believe to mean that without this trait single wound models may NOT take Terminator Armour.

I disagree, there's no rule I am aware of to back that up. Why should single wound models not be allowed to take Terminator Armour when they can take other items of wargear? If it only makes a passing (and somewhat vague) reference to an absent rule regarding selection of Terminator Armour in the Scions of Mars trait advantage, then I don't think that's enough to go on, not by a long way. What if you don't use the optional traits system and stick purely to the codex army list? As far as I can see, there's nothing to say one-wound models can't take Terminator Armour.