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Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 11:26   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

Ok I would like to bring to the point of when does anyone every use vet squads in there army? If you do what tactics do you use them for and what is there role

Cheers for your input in advance ;D
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 11:56   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

Well, I use at least one squad together with my Land Raider.
One squad tooled up for assault with two powerswords and a fist in a Raider is bad news for any opponent.
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 12:12   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

IŽd like to try the anti-tank vet squad (5 bolters and lascannon)with tank-hunter skill, because of the chance of deploying after opponents hvy support.
Actually building one squad right now!
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 13:21   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

I play an all veteran army. It's called the DeathWing.

Unfortunately all veterans in a Dark Angels army are automatically considered to be members of the deathwing and thus must be encased in terminator armor. So no regular veteran squads for Dark Angels.
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 13:53   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

Here is the problem with Vet Squads ...
Tac squads are for shooting. These guys
are pure cc.
Why would you take them over an assault squad or
just a Vet sargeants in your tac squads?
There primary use is added H2H capabilities for your
force.However you need to upgrade them to terminator
honours anmd then give them a transport to get them
into H2H. Rhinos have their shortcomings ( pretty easy to
destroy the rhino and thus the squad ) and you cannot
assault out of a rhino. Land raiders make this option
very expensive. Their slowness is their biggest liability.

In a drop pod force they make better sense...

With each upgraded veteran getting an extra close
combat attack and two cc weapons and assault bonuses
you get 20 attacks for a five man squad. Generally
you will have one with a power fist as well. That's quite
a good H2H squad but unless you really need the added punch
you are spending a lot of points on them.

Compare this with your assault squads or just adding
a Veteran Sergeant to a Tac Squad, and hiding
him behind your Marines with a powerfist. You can even give
your troops true grit and counter charge.

Close combat kills a lot of people really quickly,
what with bonus attacks for charging and extra weapons,
not to mention sweeping advances that wipe out whole units.
A unit dedicated to close combat is never bad as long as
you have the means to get them there.

A five man unit I've used

Sergeant w/ pf
three Veterans w/ bolt pistols and close combat weapons
One Veteran w/ flamer or pw or lc
All have Furious Charge and frags
drop pod

Ten man squads give you even greater flexibility
to tailor it to your needs.you can get a PF, PW nad LC
in the squad.

Ultimately, it gets down to how cost efficient these guys are.
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 14:12   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Splitter
Ok I would like to bring to the point of when does anyone every use vet squads in there army? If you do what tactics do you use them for and what is there role

Cheers for your input in advance ;D
Veteran Squads allow #Tank Hunter veteran skill without Traits.

I don't use Dreadnoughts very often, and I don't use Terminators. I don't like either unit for my needs. So my Elites stay open. I use more Fast Attack. However, I use my Elite as a pseudo-troop selection instead, and with that, I use the elite Veterans.

Elite - 123 points.
Veterans x 6
-Lascannon
#Tank Hunters

I generally take two squads like that. It's relatively cheap for the punch it gives me, and it's basically the same as a Tac squad, like having another Troop, but with a Str10 lascannon, instead of Str9. Some don't think that extra strength makes a statistical difference, as it's a minor increase, but for me, I like reliability and when I want a tank rolling on the damage chart on turn one without guess work, Str10 does the job. I take two, at least, so one is bound to hit and glance or penetrate very easily. I like glancing A13 skimmers (Tau) on a 3+, instead of a 4. It makes a big difference for me, because I can't afford to not give it a stun or better; it will move out of my sight if I don't nail it. Anyhow, the same holds for enemy tanks. It's not useful for A12, but if you're facing A13+ it's very nice having the ability to keep your roll requirement down, and still put things like LemanRusses and Land Raiders, or Vindicators and Predators into the dirt with a single strong shot that has pretty good odds of delivering.

Plus, they cost similar to a Dreadnought, but have a lot more survival and resilience than a Dread.
So, I enjoy the Vets. It frees up my Tacticals to be more mobile instead of sitting back with the lascannons.

If you're interested, here's a full thread on the very subject: Working Around the Troops - Veteran Squad Use

-- I really don't like Vet Squads for assault. Assault Marines are better and faster at it. Tac teams in Drop Pods, are more deliverable for less points. Furious charge, just like in Chaos, rarely gets used if you only have 6" movement; you don't always get the charge. Infiltrating teams of Vets are not worth it for assault, and delivering them with a transport isn't reliable. In the end, they're just marines with a few goodies to use; just like a Command Squad. But Assault Marines can make that assault meal ticket happen, and assault marines can also get Furious Charge via Traits, making better use of that kind of approach to assault (though even its not worth it honestly). Vet Squads, in my opinion, are simply better at shooting than anything else. The cost of their assault setup isn't equivalent to the power output. You pay a big price for that extra power fist, or pair of claws, and if you throw in the Serg as well into these upgrades, you quickly have a 160+ point 6 man team; 200+ points when you get near 8. And they only move 6" and still need to buy mobility. It doesn't guarantee anything, except a big price tag. You could easily just put Assault Marines in the Elite slot and have a better more mobile team for the table top.

Cheers!
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 14:22   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

See, we differ here, Mal. I see no reason whatsoever to take a vet squad for shooting when tac squads fill the bill better. I'm not convinced. If I want pure anti-tank I'll stick with dev squads. But I can see how you might want t6o use them just for a bit of fluff or variety as at least they are not overly priced. I would only take vets in drop pods myself.
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 14:33   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX
Elite - 123 points.
Veterans x 6
-Lascannon
#Tank Hunters

Thanks they seem to give me the very idea i have been looking for thanks very much
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Old 03 Oct 2006, 14:44   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

@God Splitter,

Just to expand on a point I hinted at, the Veterans allow you to do things that normally require traits, but without taking traits. This is nice, because in order to stack traits, you have to take on drawbacks and you don't always want, say, two drawbacks for example. It depends which traits you want. But the point is, you can use Vets to make up for the lack of Traits, and instead, specialize your Traits to be more useful in a small way.

An example:

Say you wanted to build on Cleanse & Purify with Drop Pods. The trait doesn't cost you points, but you'll be using up your Tactical Squads mostly for this. You'll have room still for lascannon anti-tank support, but you can still use other slots for this. You could use an HQ squad, you could use a Dreadnought, you could use Devastators, but all of these options are either very expensive or fragile. Devastators with missiles are not very good tank hunters unless you're spaming kraks at transports and light skimmers. Lascannons cost way too much to even bother here. Dreadnoughts have excellent lascannons, especially a venerable one, but look at the cost of that. And look at the A12. Its expensive and fragile; a terrible mix. Also, heavy support is placed first (Devs) so your opponent's tanks can setup in cover to avoid them as you both deploy. An elite, like the Dread or Vets on the other hand, are deployed much later, after Troops, giving you more strategic choice on putting your lascannons in a place to have optimal line of sight, to more targets instead of just plopping down first and hoping something is targetable later. Anyhow, Veterans give you those wonderful tank hunting lascannons, for cheap, that do a lot of anti-tank work and go a long way, working much better as a work horse, than an ultra expensive fragile Dread, or a heavy Dev team, costing a mint themselves to be worth a dime at busting tanks beyond transports (they're better with heavy bolters any day, which is a better use of those boys anyways). Now you can drop pod your double-plasma powerfist Tactical teams in Drop pods, and still have plenty of room for lascannon squads, who aren't just throwing out a few lascannons, but throwing out tank hunting Str10 lascannons. That also leaves room for tactical squads, with double plasma, to walk on foot. Cheap excellent scoring squads, that you can use to extend deployment time, to better get an idea of what you're deploying against later, with your elites.

Anyhow, you can use similar logic to approach many of the traits. Veterans can help you do things that are critical, not as a core all the time, but sometimes, just to supplement, but do it very well, our core anti-tank support in the list. And you still have trait freedom to work with, or no traits if you prefer (like an Ultra Marine setup).

Cheers!
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Old 04 Oct 2006, 01:54   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Does Anyone Use Vet Squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bebe
See, we differ here, Mal. I see no reason whatsoever to take a vet squad for shooting when tac squads fill the bill better. I'm not convinced. If I want pure anti-tank I'll stick with dev squads. But I can see how you might want t6o use them just for a bit of fluff or variety as at least they are not overly priced. I would only take vets in drop pods myself.
I played a game last night and my 7 man vet squad with bolters( no termie honors for sgt.) with furious charge and a chaplain took out a bigger squad of khorne beserkers. I think vet squads with bolters are a good choice but I do have a CC vet squad as well. ;D
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