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Newbie looking for help
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Old 01 Oct 2006, 03:27   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Default Newbie looking for help

Hello everyone, I'm completely new to the whole 40k game, and tabletop miniature gaming in general. My friend and I recently decided to enter into the game and purchased the Battle for Maccragge set (the rule book being the prime incentive). I decided to start collecting the Marines, while he chose the Tyranids.

We haven't yet painted our new little men, or really done much besides cut them out roughly (still need filing) and put them together. We ran through a few random battles, straight ones, just to get a feel for the actual rules (we didn't want to go through the scenarios listed in the set, we may do those later though). I originally thought that I would have to buy every model as i wanted it, and no changes could be made, then i was introduced to the wargear section of the codex, and its getting a little blurry.

What I'm wondering primarily is what sort of models are required, and can't simply be substituted, and how this sort of thing will be handled in a more constructed setting (for example, a tournament or the like). For example, what is the standard regarding letting your opponent know such options, for example, what type of librarian you are using. Just how far does this extend? (For example, Librarian in Termie armor and a storm bolter came in a blister... Could I declare him an Epistolary or a codicier? and can i declare the weapon is something besides a storm bolter?)

I read in one thread here or another, someone giving tips on converting a rhino or some other transport into an offensive tank, is this generally accepted, and if so, does this hold true for GW sanctioned events?

And lastly, a link to how to paint raven guard would be well appreciated. I looked throught he codex and I like their colours and the more infantry based slant on their army. (The lower number of vehicles doesn't hurt because it favours the cheaper infantry units, instead of the 50$ or more tank/dreadnoughts, so i can deal with using less of them).

Thanks to anyone who can help, and I hope this is the right sub-forum...
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Old 01 Oct 2006, 03:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 930
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Well, as you've Space Marines, yes it is! Welcome to the boards.

Ok, the rules are WYSIWYG - What you see is what you get. However, this really only extends to equipment. So, for your example, the librarian would have to be in terminator armour to say he's got it. But, since there is no model difference between Epistolary/Codicier, you could use him as either. The same goes with sergeants in tactical squads.

However, in friendly games, you can sub some models, which is called a 'proxy'. Proxies, however, are not allowed in tournaments or official gaming, and your opponent gets to draw the line (i.e. coke can carnifex).

Also, you do not need to say which type of librarian he is. You have to have your army list with you, so you can prove which one, but you don't have to tell him outright (i.e. tell him when he asks).

As for WYSIWYG for tournaments, the rule of thumb is this: if it's the same size as the model and has the same equipment, and looks similar (i.e. no ork warboss in mega armour for a terminator!!), then it's acceptable. And it has to start out as a Citadel miniature.

As for ravenguard... I personally don't paint black (anymore). I find it really hard to keep it from being black (as I have no highlighting skills to speak of...), and hard to distinguish from the ribbed bits at the marine joints. The point is: you should learn how to highlight.
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Old 01 Oct 2006, 03:53   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Georgia
Posts: 218
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderXeno88
For example, what is the standard regarding letting your opponent know such options, for example, what type of librarian you are using.
You'll probably have a army list written up, your opponent can look it over if need be and more importantly it'll make it easier for figuring out victory points at the end of matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderXeno88
Just how far does this extend? (For example, Librarian in Termie armor and a storm bolter came in a blister... Could I declare him an Epistolary or a codicier? and can i declare the weapon is something besides a storm bolter?)
Typically any matches you run in a store, tournament, or against an opponent you dont know well, the rule is What You See Is What You Get. Meaning that Librarian in Term armor thats packing a storm bolter is exactly that, he can be a Codicier or an Epostolary because they're both librarians but if you drop him on the table and say he's a Captain with 2 lightning claws a few players may not want you to use him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderXeno88
I read in one thread here or another, someone giving tips on converting a rhino or some other transport into an offensive tank, is this generally accepted, and if so, does this hold true for GW sanctioned events?
What you're referring to is called conversion. So long as 85% (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) of the model is made up of GW parts and the model looks the part it's perfectly acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderXeno88
And lastly, a link to how to paint raven guard would be well appreciated. I looked through he codex and I like their colours and the more infantry based slant on their army. (The lower number of vehicles doesn't hurt because it favours the cheaper infantry units, instead of the 50$ or more tank/dreadnoughts, so i can deal with using less of them).
Hit up the official GW site and nose around through the space marine section, I'm pretty sure most of major chapters have at least an example model posted showing how a marine will look once finished. If thats not enough thumb through our painting section of these forums (or use the search function), and if that still isn't enough GW produces a book all about modeling that I've heard great things about.

If you have a local GW store nearby you can probably hit them up for classes on modeling, painting, converting, ect... in my experience most of the employees are great about helping players get started. Welcome to the hobby

edit: forgot to spell check
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Old 01 Oct 2006, 03:55   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Welcome to TO and, more importantly, the hobby!

It wouldn't be allowed in a tournament, but in a friendly game you shouldn't have much trouble using substituted models, at least when your new. If your opponent get's grumpy about it in a pick-up game, he's not the sort you want to play against.

The first thing you should do is to write up a 500-point army list that includes at least two troops and an HQ. The units from the BFM box are a good place to start. Just pick up a couple other boxes of marines and glue them together; don't worry about painting until you have your 500 points together.

I also never paint black, as it simply can not be shaded, so it always looks flat. Also, painting anything over black is a pain.
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Old 01 Oct 2006, 04:28   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Actually, it might be a good idea to do a combat patrol instead of a 500 point list; it's smaller and more fitting for said small points.
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Old 01 Oct 2006, 12:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Otley, Yorkshire, England
Posts: 206
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Black can be done so it doesn't look flat, but it does take a bit of time and effort to be put into it. I'm fairly sure there was an artical on highlighting black up on the GW sight a while ago. I'll try to find it for you. Other than that, all the other advise is good!

Good luck!

Edit: I found this on Chaplains, wich may be a bit too complicated as it's for characters, but you can take techneques from it for your troopers.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacema...g-chaplains/1/

I also found this, which again is a bit complicated, but can be simplified down.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacema...lack-armour/1/

Hope those help!
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Old 02 Oct 2006, 00:36   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Alright, thanks a bunch for all the great input!

I'm looking over the highliting black tips now, thanks for the link Aun shi.

Now I'd like to ask, what would be a good way to start out my army? I read somewhere that I should pick up 3 boxes of 10 tactical marines and a commander box. This seems like a good idea, but I'm open to further suggestions for cheap ways to create a viable base for an army. I currently own the 10 marines from the boxed set, Lt. Varras (ew) and a terminator librarian (I wanted the armor upgrade... yeah).

Should I get one of the megaforces, or just buy each piece of the army individually?

I was thinking of running a bunch of 6 man tactical squads with my termie librarian for the time being, and eventually switching him out for an assault based chaplain with a squad of assault troops for lower point games, and bringing the librarian in when the point cost is high enough to allow it. Does that sound decent?

Any money saving tips would be especially appreciated, as I have a relatively tight budget, and I want to get this army up and running so that I can try to play some 'real' games, which will let me make better troop choices in the future.
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Old 02 Oct 2006, 01:04   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,744
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Well getting more troops is definitely a good idea but realize you will play lots of opponents with different armies. You're going to need a well rounded force that will allow you take on any army.

I would recommend getting some more troops and one heavy support( tank, dreadnaught, devastator squad) whichever you like best. Youre going to need some big guns to deal with armored vehicles and monsterous creatures. Youre OK with your HQ for now as you could technially use a sgt. model as a commander.

I just thought of it since noone's mentioned it at all, get the space marine codex if you don't have it already.

Anyway, I recommend two more tactical squads and a heavy support choice of your chosing. That will give you a decent army to start with and then you will be able to build from there quite easily. Since you will have a good amount of troops, your future purchases will allow you to focus on fast attack, more heavy support, more HQ's, etc.

As for getting GW products cheap, go to thewarstore.com They have a 20% discount on ALL GW products. You pick what you want from the GW website or your local store and get the number from their website. The shipping is pretty cheap and reasonably quick.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

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Old 02 Oct 2006, 01:10   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Oops, probably should have menioned that I picked up the space marine codex really quick because I knew I'd need it. Thanks for the ideas.

I'm in particular looking to create a jack of all trades army (well, as much as can be done given the raven guard, which should be Ok at it, right?). Maybe a slight slant towards the shooty side of things, but really, I'd like to be able to assess what's being thrown against me on the field and just be able to play my army accordingly.
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Old 02 Oct 2006, 08:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,087
Default Re: Newbie looking for help

Welcome to Tau Online and the Hobby!

I would like to point you to the sticky threads in the Space marines board, those thread can provide you with a lot of information. You should see the Important topics and links thread and for Army configuration you should take a peek in the Space Marine Army Guide.

If you have any questions feel free to ask them in this board, most members will be happy to help out. Just try to get an draft army list ready and then post it in the Space Marines Army lists board.

See you around the boards.
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